Keyboard Layout Survey: Details Matter
We often get questions about the layout of notebook keyboards from our customers. People want to understand what drives the location of certain keys. Many times this is very difficult to explain. Key location is not always related to detailed human factors or usability analysis. History often plays a role. Have you ever tried to rationalize the QWERTY layout to someone who has never used or possibly even seen a typewriter? Fortunately most of the questions we see center around the location of very specific keys rather than global questions like the validity of the QWERTY layout.
In keeping with our continued desire to gather input from the readers of Design Matters, my team has created a detailed survey on this subject. Your input can help us get your favorite keys in the rights places. You can take the survey here. Thanks for your interest and time.
David Hill
Lenovo Meet the Modder Dean Liou
Lenovo Meet the modder- Chris Blarsky Dairy 2
Lenovo Meet the modder- Chris Blarsky Dairy 1
Lenovo H320 desktop
July 9th, 2008 5:13 pm
Is that a BLACK “Enter” key?
July 9th, 2008 5:18 pm
Don’t panic Tony, the enter key is blue
July 9th, 2008 5:26 pm
please don’t move the Fn key as it’s been in the same spot for 15 years—then again, so have the PgUp/PgDn keys.
July 9th, 2008 5:34 pm
Great! I can see it now after turning up screen brightness – phew!
all these surveys are leading me to believe that even after all the rumors we’re still a long way away from a new T series!…
July 9th, 2008 6:15 pm
Thank you so much for considering user opinion on this and I just can’t miss this chance to ask you or beg you or whatever it takes … PLEASE release or at least consider an optional keyboard without the damn windows key, content menu key and the keys above the arrows (although they are much less annoying) and resize Ctrl and Alt keys back to the normal, usable size. There are many different international keyboard shapes and sizes with keys in various places, what does it take to just release a normal, basic, productive, usable US keyboard ? No, really ?
July 9th, 2008 6:16 pm
I hate the FN key position since I use Ctrl a lot and hence have to keep hunting for Ctrl in different places depending on which keyboard I am using. If Ctrl and FN were swapped I’d be happy.
The numeric keypad overlay on the Thinkpad keyboard is also rather useless since it is at a wierd angle.
I am also a big fan of the Caps Lock/Num Lock etc indicator lights being on their respective keys. That makes it very clear what to press to turn them off.
Also the Windows keys are a waste and I am probably one of the few people that know their shortcuts!
July 9th, 2008 6:44 pm
If there’s an option to have a keyboard without a Windows key that would be great, as right now it’s making CTRL and ALT less usable. The keyboard design of the T4x is already good (with the colors and everything) actually – please bring it back!
July 9th, 2008 8:51 pm
Strongly agree with the ctrl/fn key switch.
1) It’s consistent with other keyboards — it’s a pain for users that use both a ThinkPad and any other computer (e.g., a desktop at home).
2) The Ctrl key is used much, much more often than the fn key for most users; it should be easier to find, in the far left corner of the keyboard rather than mixed in together with all of the other special/modifier keys in that area.
Please keep the Windows key and menu keys. I’m no fan of Windows. But I have to use Windows, and Windows key shortcuts are wonderful (Win-D, Win-E, …).
And ironically, the Windows key (“super” key) is a big deal for Linux users. The amazing Compiz desktop is neutered without it.
July 9th, 2008 9:16 pm
Please don’t screw up the ThinkPad keyboard. You had it right the first time. It doesn’t need “improving”.
July 9th, 2008 9:41 pm
One more vote for no Windows keys. At least lose the right one and give us larger Alt + Ctrl. At least as an option. Pretty please. Other than that, the current layout is just great.
July 9th, 2008 10:39 pm
Keep the layout the same, but most important:
Keep the crisp feel of the best of the thinkpad models!
July 9th, 2008 11:10 pm
Please do “screw up” the ThinkPad keyboard. It desperately needs some new innovation.
Look at studies like this:
http://computerworld.com/actio.....hm_ts_head
The X300 layout is not the way either – i.e. key combinations
Finally, please illuminate ALL the keyboard keys! No more Mickey Mouse flashlight!
PS – I agree with Tony Marik, the new T Series aint comin anytime soon…
July 9th, 2008 11:49 pm
David, I’m stuck in the middle of the survey.
It’s asking me to choose between two keyboard layouts, A and F, and I don’t see where the option is to say “I would never consider buying a computer with either of these hideous keyboard layouts!” Both of them have the Home/End/PgUp/PgDn keys scattered haphazardly around the keyboards.
One of the main reason I buy ThinkPads is because I can always find the keys, on all of my ThinkPads, ten year old or brand new.
I guess I’ll pick one layout at random and put “indifference” on the scale of 1 to 5. But the survey won’t know whether I meant “love either one” or “hate ‘em both.”
July 10th, 2008 12:04 am
My bad. It’s asking me about keyboards B and C. Keyboards A and F were on the page before that.
Keyboard A is a ThinkPad keyboard. I don’t know what the rest are supposed to be. They are not ThinkPad keyboards.
Are Lenovo engineers designing a machine for Dell or HP? I don’t get it at all.
BTW, my vote is to keep the Windows key. I use it all the time. Especially in Vista, where the Start menu works so well with the keyboard. I hardly ever click on the Start button, much easier to hit the Windows key.
I don’t like the keys above the arrows, although they’ve gotten a bit less annoying as browsers have gotten better at not losing data because of the accidental Back/Forward actions that these keys cause.
July 10th, 2008 1:28 am
My only quibbles with the Thinkpad keyboard layout: want no Windows keys, switch Fn and Ctrl.
Sometimes I end up hitting F1 when I want to reach for Esc, but that’s not such a big deal.
July 10th, 2008 1:45 am
Please, Please don’t munger around with the Thinkpad keyboard. I too could do without the Windows and menu key, I neutered the Win key with a registry hack and do wish the real estate it occupies could have been given somewhere else but, I could live with it, don’t make it any larger than found on the T60 14″ screen.
When the web nav keys on the right and around the arrow keys came out a couple years ago, I didn’t like them at first, but find them very handy now.
Would be nice if the keys were easier to remove and replace for cleaning under them. Air dusters? HAH!
July 10th, 2008 6:07 am
Idea: Have the Fn/Control issue be handled by the ThinkPad Utilities configuration. And user can switch key caps. CRU design for the win.
Also, get rid of windows keys, Make the Function keys grey like how they used to be.
Just out of curiosity, can you poll opinions about branding? I’d like to see the new Lenovo stamp on the X300 gone, as well as returning the ThinkPad stamp to their original shape.
July 10th, 2008 6:23 am
This is extremly scary survey. All I can say is: Stay away from the keyboard layout, DO NOT CHANGE ANYTHING. We have already lost former ThinkPad’s top feature, IPS displays. Now we got el-cheapo panels you can find in 400$ notebooks. We have already lost business 4:3 form factor format.
I understaned the survey is driven by the move to widescreen format. Your competitors have already screwed up keyboard layout because of that. I mean the position of Home/End/PgUp/PgDn keys moved to a band on the right side. Please don’t follow this nonsense (you have already did it once by getting rid of 4:3 form factor, that’s enough isn’t it ?) because that would be end of ThinkPads for me at all.
July 10th, 2008 6:42 am
I think Puppy hit the nail on the head. It’s enough that we lost the 4:3 format, messing with the keyboard layout could only make things worse. That is unless you switch back to the T4x keyboard which was as close to perfection as it can get (no Windows keys, large Alt and Ctrl keys, grey Function keys, perfect key layout, etc).
July 10th, 2008 6:46 am
Puppy is right, the fact that a notebook is in 4:3 is a major part of my buying decision. And a high quality display is appreciated. I’ve heard less than par about the X300.
July 10th, 2008 6:47 am
Bob,
That is a great idea! What do you think about it, David?
July 10th, 2008 11:52 am
Please. I want my Windows keys. Can’t imagine using Windows without them!
The current location of the Fn key is neat for one thing; in the dark it’s very easy to hit the key combination for the Thinklight.
July 10th, 2008 12:01 pm
Please do not switch Fn and ctrl. Although it takes a while to get used to it when coming from a desktop keyboard, the Fn’s exposed location makes it easy to find especially when you’re in need to use it. (thinklight: bottom left + top right key – genius!). Also, one is able to press it with the palm while pressing one of the fn-keys with a finger.
The leyout is perfect as it is. Please keep the PgUp-PgDown keys where they are. “Home”-key next to “Esc”? Ouch. Please keep “home” and “end” together. One has to navigate through a simple text editor without constantly changing hand’s positions.
Oh, and the only reason for widening a keyboard on a widescreen would be adding a numerical keypad for me. But i’m a bit old fashioned, anyway.
July 10th, 2008 12:04 pm
I agree with many of the above posts. I love the home-end-pgup etc. positioning on the ThinkPad. This is usually one of the first areas to be mangled on notebooks so its great that ThinkPads keep a relatively reasonable layout for these keys. My biggest frustration with the keyboard is the fn-ctrl placement. I also use ctrl a lot and I am always hitting fn, very annoying.
I personally like having a Windows key and use it quite a bit, especially in Vista as mentioned above.
July 10th, 2008 12:26 pm
Lenovo is making thinkpad “all-lenovo” now =( My X300’s keyboard is already crippled with flexing issue.
July 10th, 2008 12:36 pm
As for real improvements, I like the idea to support Fn/Ctrl swap in Keyboard Customizer utility.
Moreover there could be easier access to numeric pad keys (especially the [+] and [-] key) via direct [Fn]+something (like JKL/UIO/789 etc.) combination without a need to activate NumLock mode. Foe example Windows treeview controls supports expand/collapse via numpad’s [+]/[-] keys so it is convenient to use them.
And just another comment about keyboard size. I have both R51 with full size keyboard and X31 with smaller size. I must say I like more the X31 smaller size than the full size one. I’d like to keep the size on X series despite of widescreen format.
July 10th, 2008 12:57 pm
The keyboard & mouse are the most important factors to me when selecting a laptop. After owning a PowerBook for a year, I replaced it with a T42p, due to the fact that it didn’t have three mouse buttons, a trackpoint, or separate PageUp/PageDown keys (you have to press the Fn key in combination with up-arrow or down-arrow).
I vote for removing the windows keys from the keyboard.
July 10th, 2008 2:58 pm
There’s no notebook vendor out there with such great keyboards as Lenovo/IBM with the ThinkPad-series.
What makes them the best is the mostly fantastic tactile feedback, but also the very desktop-like keys which are easy to use blindly, as the positions and spaces between keygroups simply fit.
Please don’t do the same mistakes as Dell and co.!
!
Keep it as it is (maybe drop the Windows Key
July 10th, 2008 5:30 pm
I don’t care much about all this this windows/fn/ctrl issue: I place the control feature on the key labelled “capslk”, which is much easier to reach than the lower-left corner, so I use the old “ctrl” key for Super, and let all of “alt”, “windows” and “menu” map to the same “alt” feature (so I don’t care if they’re just one key or two keys, I can press either of them or even a combination).
OTOH I often press F1 when I meant to press ESC: ESC is a bit too far. Other than that, the Thinkpad keyboard rocks, which is why I use it on all my machines, desktop included.
July 10th, 2008 5:45 pm
To accomodate both the ones who are used to the thinkpad layout of Fn/Ctrl key and the ones who use other keyboards too, you could just make a switch in bios that would invert the way it relays these two respective keystrokes to the OS.
July 10th, 2008 6:04 pm
Apple MacBooks’s (Pro too) are the state of the art laptop keyboards. I now you can’t copy them so clearly, but you should get as much as possible to get close to this example.
July 10th, 2008 8:32 pm
swapping ctrl and fn would ruin ctrl+alt shortcuts (there is a lot in visual studio or such)
consider windows keys somewhere else (top row?)
keep esc on it’s row, fX clearly separated by 4 key group
keep the same feel / quality
I want my t40 layout back
thanks for asking
July 10th, 2008 10:20 pm
another vote towards bringing the old T40 series keyboards back. as useful as the windows key is with shortcut combo’s, i would rather have it gone. note that you can always use keyboard customiser to set it to say the right ALT key (thats the default when turned on)
as for swapping the FN and CTRL keys, how about we not annoy the people who have been used to this layout for the past 10 or 15 years?
July 10th, 2008 11:52 pm
i agree with Pawel 110%!
At least, I-L-L-U-M-I-N-A-T-E the keys! Dell, HP, Toshiba, and Apple ALL have keyboard key illumination. This is why ThinkPads do not work on planes!
Peter, what kind of “flexing issue” are you experiencing on your X300??? – I have one too!
July 11th, 2008 12:02 am
Please lose the Windows key and don’t touch anything else for crying out loud…I’m with Puppy 1000% on everything he stated…
July 11th, 2008 8:10 am
Please, please please move the Fn key. No one else puts it where Ctrl should be. And let’s face it, sometimes we have to use other keyboards, even if we love Lenovo.
And the Windows Menu key is a must for Vista. How else can you use Vista’s search and lock your screen without your fingers leaving the keyboard? I hardly used it with XP but it has finally come of age.
July 11th, 2008 8:11 am
I agree with most of posters above. The reason I use thinkpad is because of the legendary keyboard and track point with three buttons.
Please please please do not even remotely consider changing keyboard layout.
Getting rid of windows keys would be great. Fn and Ctrl key location doesn’t bother me at all.
July 11th, 2008 11:34 am
The only way widescreen helps the X series is by allowing for a full-sized keyboard with wider backspace, backslash, enter, tab, shift, etc. I agree that Fn and Ctrl should be swappable in BIOS with same-sized key caps that are also swappable. The Windows/Super key is fine but that Windows menu key on the right has got to go. If it’s really needed, make Fn+Windows be the menu key.
Thanks for the poll!
July 11th, 2008 1:01 pm
In response to those requesting keyboard illumination, i think it is an unprofessional feature. The Thinklight should be a bright white LED (not soft orange like it is on my X40) so that it can actually be useful in situations other than pitch dark.
If one looks at the backlit keyboard on the current MBP’s, it is actually quite silly looking due to all the light spilling around and behind the keys – it looks like an unfinished job on an otherwise clean design.
I think that for the next Thinkpad lines, not only should the Thinklights be bright white LED’s, but all the LED status lights should be white LED’s, with a strong focus to the light being evenly spread across the icons so that no icon ever has the “half lit” look to it – but i digress.
Cheers David – and the rest of those interested in the small but important details -
Tony Marik
July 11th, 2008 1:56 pm
I hope you compare the Mac’s multi-function keyboard layer. Because it is very convenient in operation.
July 11th, 2008 4:44 pm
Please don’t kill 7-row keyboard on business model Thinkpads. Don’t go the way of HP and Toshiba.
July 11th, 2008 4:50 pm
Also: Fn CTRL position could be handled in BIOS like with HP (on HPs I swap Fn and CTRL so they’re like Thinkpads). Note that Fn in the corner came from Thinklight, using opposite corner keys to turn on the light that are always hard to find.
We don’t need two Windows keys, I can live without it as I map right CTRL to Win and I don’t need context since I have two right-click buttons on ultra-nav already.
July 11th, 2008 5:37 pm
The keyboard on T4x is indeed perfect. The location of Fn key at the very left was never an issue, simply because the Ctrl and Alt keys are large. Also without the Win key you can easily hit both Ctrl and Alt with a thumb, now you need to use two fingers because of the damn key in between.
Also, regarding your survey, don’t even think about changing location of other keys, especially PgUp and PgDn or you might as well abandon the name Thinkpad altogether and start producing wordpad, workpad, talkpad and wekilledthinkpad.
July 11th, 2008 7:54 pm
Another vote here for the T4x keyboard layout. It really is just perfect.
The windows key and the menu key aren’t necessary and the Fn function is fine in the edge. PgUp and PgDown are reached easily and the PgForward and PgBackward keys are pretty useful…
I’d even pay a surcharge of about, let’s say 20$ if it were possible to get a keyboard with the T4x layout for the newer models…
July 11th, 2008 10:03 pm
Yet another vote for the T4x keyboard. The only change I would make is to remove the keyboard customizer utility and move that functionality into the BIOS. And now that I think about it, I wouldn’t mind losing the browser back and forward buttons, especially if the arrow keys can be made even just a little bit bigger.
Just as I’m about to submit, here’s one last thing: use the T6x style volume and power buttons.
July 11th, 2008 10:33 pm
Did you know that the ThinkPad keyboard is no longer like a desktop keyboard? If you look at any new desktop keyboard, they no longer have the 3 columns x 2 rows of navigation keys like before, and most are missing the insert key.
I actually like having the Ctrl closer since I use Ctrl frequently, but it always throws me off when I use other notebooks that have Ctrl on the left side.
July 12th, 2008 3:00 am
Please remove the Windows keys from keyboard, switch FnCtrl. All other keys in a right place.
July 12th, 2008 3:55 am
Trisha – I really think you should buy a Mac – you seem to not really get ThinkPads based on your posts. I for one dont want my computer designed based on the views of idiots which based on that article such as ‘just pressed the power button’ to turn the shut the computer down. Macs are designed for consumers so will obviously win such a comparison but for others, particularly those who know how to use a TrackPoint properly, the ease of use of the ThinkPad cannot be touched. I dont want a backlit keyboard nor do I use the Thinklight much – I opted to learn to type instead.
David Hill – a black enter key is not a worry, its a desire, the blue Enter key to me is not a good design feature.
The ThinkPad 7/8 row keyboard layout is pretty much perfect – the only reason to change would be for cost savings which is not a valid reason for proper ThinkPads.
Having used thinkpads for so long, i’m used to the Fn/Ctrl positions now so wouldn’t want it changed but isn’t there enough people wanting it to warrant an easy BIOS switch to allow those that want to switch the Fn and Ctrl function keys.
I for one, like the Windows key (particularly for Vista), although I do not use the Application key much, plus its a requirement for the designed for Windows logo stickers now which large OEMs need to keep so these keys aren’t going anywhere.
July 12th, 2008 4:37 am
For me the Thinkpad T series keyboards are just perfect. They are good for day-to-day work, the layout (maybe except for the windows keys, and the fn/ctrl/caps lock issue) makes life easy with the internal keyboard.
In my opinion its perfect. I recommend that you do not change the layout, the size, or the quality of the keyboard.
July 12th, 2008 9:06 am
trisha while putting pressure on my X300’s keyboard it flexes, lenovo engineer said it is a design feature
July 12th, 2008 7:26 pm
Snife, it’s not just Apple… Dell, HP, and Toshiba all offer keyboard illumination too!
Tony, if you think that keyboard illumination is “unprofessional”, i suggest that you visit the first-class cabin on your next trip. If that does not work, talk to Steve Ballmer about how much he enjoys the illuminated keyboard of his Toshiba (You Tube).
Peter, I agree with you. A $3,000 laptop should not have any keyboard flex at all. My X300 suffers flexing too.
Cheers gents!
July 12th, 2008 8:00 pm
I like about ThinkPad keyboards that they have the “classic six”, as all normal usable keyboards. However, I find back/forward keys completely useless, so I’ve remapped them to also serve as PageUp/Down and like that also, for navigating through webpages and text files.
The last modification I’ve done to my ThinkPad’s keyboard was to remap PrtSc/ScrLk/Pause to NumPad +-*
These keys are important for example in file managers or when using zoom in/out shortcuts and ThinkPad keyboards don’t allow direct use of numpad keys (such as Fn+P for *), so I had to find some workaround.
July 12th, 2008 11:28 pm
What next, thinkpads in white and blue? Come on Lenovo, do NOT mess with the thinkpad keyboard. Already the T60 keyboards are not upto the feel of the older thinkpads, and you are even *thinking* of chaning the keyboard layout it is nothing short of sacrilege.
July 13th, 2008 3:24 am
I think the current Lenovo key layout is very smart, i think the windows key is especially good, given that Vista needs the key to activate the Windows Aero’s feature. Also the windows media key on the direction button is neat.
July 13th, 2008 11:53 am
A couple people have mentioned making the X series keyboard wider. I must say, I (and probably others) disagree with this. I find that the footprint is more important than the keyboard being wide. I see no reason to make the X series wider.
(Hint hint: Don’t want widescreens like the X300)
July 13th, 2008 12:22 pm
David,
please make a keyboard with digital keypad for 15.4″ wides. Some manufacturers (LG, for example) already offer this feature.
At the same time, T61[p] have a useless plains to the left and to the right of keyboard. I am sure you will not call it good design.
July 13th, 2008 4:07 pm
I have a Thinkpad X60, keyboard layout is great for me except for a few things…
First, please swap the Fn and Ctrl key, make Fn key gray (looks better)…
2nd, make the Esc key in a row with F1 key, it’s irritating when I found the computer opening help instead of closing a window…
3rd, make the backspace key a bit bigger, but don’t move the key to other place, just make the ~/` key smaller, then resize the backspace key…
Everything else is great, even for the X60 (12″), I found the keys is much more comfort than 14″/15″ of the competitors…
July 14th, 2008 6:06 am
gator, take it easy now. Keep in mind that Lenovo does not manufacture their keyboards. I’d say the only necessary change is switching the fn/ctrl keys
July 14th, 2008 11:02 am
Though I love the feel of thinkpad keyboards, I have always wondered why thinkpad keyboards have the FN Key all the way to the left instead of the CTRL key? That was the one thing that took me the longest to adjust when I made the sqitch to thinkpad years ago. would love read a blog on that…
July 14th, 2008 11:57 am
Timothy,
I believe the logic behind that was to easily toggle the Thinklight. I’m not entirely sure but that makes the most sense to me, as the keys are located on opposing corners of the keyboard.
Tony
July 14th, 2008 12:40 pm
Bah, a lot of people re complaining about the Fn/Ctrl key. Don’t forget the rest of us who like the current setup and have no reason to complain (yet) if you debate the switch!
Only notebooks I’ve ever bought/used fulltime were ThinkPads, and so the current set up is quite natural. Although I have a habit of hitting the Win key when I aim for Ctrl, I have been used to the slightly wider Ctrl and no Win.
July 14th, 2008 2:51 pm
@Tony re “I believe the logic behind that was to easily toggle the Thinklight.”
I wouldn’t think so since the ThinkPad keyboard layout precedes the ThinkLight by… light years!
Look at Figure 2-2 in this User’s Guide for TN3270 terminals -> http://www.wyse.com/service/su.....270_02.pdf
Look familiar? For the zillion 3270 terminal users transitioning to PCs who were accustomed to having Reset or Cntl and Alt side-by-side, putting a key between them would have been unproductive to say the least.
As always, just one mouse’s opinion…
Nonny
July 15th, 2008 1:56 am
Q: ThinkLight is exposure to the hand, and MacBook Pro is exposure to the……?
Also, on the X300, Caps Look key light should move to the upper left corner, otherwise, the fingers are blocking the light.
July 15th, 2008 12:52 pm
It took me a while to get used to having the Caps Lock light on the key, but now I kind of like it there. It’s not so bright that it’s distracting, but the angle that I see it causes it to appear to flash as it comes on. That catches my attention if I’ve pressed it by mistake.
I’m not married to it like I am to Ins/Del/Home/End/PgUp/PgDn position, though, so it could go back in the line-up at the top of the keyboard.
July 15th, 2008 1:30 pm
Remove the silly Win key, and keep all other keys at their original place. And illuminate the whole keyboard as Apple does. The LED light’s outdated…
July 15th, 2008 3:12 pm
Suggestion for another topic: Since new ThinkPad models have been introduced today could you please write something about the new thick display bezel design ? It seems as it is the most unwelcome design change of new ThinkPads line.
July 15th, 2008 4:02 pm
As many already said:
Keep the layout and remove the windows keys, i.e. go back to the T4x etc. layout.
The best feeling of typing I know is the Thinkpad 600 keyboard.
July 15th, 2008 4:27 pm
Leave the darn keyboards alone! You should have stopped fiddling before you added the Windows key and left well enough alone. Get rid of it, go back to the 40-series style keyboards, and quit messing with a good thing.
The day that Lenovo changes the layout of the cursor keys (or the action of the keyboards) is the day I look elsewhere.
July 16th, 2008 1:44 am
Dear sir
good day , how are you? please can you give me IBM T40 model laptop keyboard function and works details….and key details
Thanks
Sandeep Tiwari
July 16th, 2008 10:13 am
sandeep,
you may be interested in downloading the thinkpad T40 hardware maintenance manual. it contains troubleshooting, assembly, and spare parts information.
for peer-to-peer help with your system, please visit the lenovo forum.
July 16th, 2008 1:44 pm
Allow me to try to be constructive and make two points.
1.) I believe the keys “on the corners” are always the quickest/easiest to find, and the most commonly used keys *that cannot be reached from normal touch-typing position* should go there. Page up/down are surely the most commonly used keys of that nature, and that’s why they are perfectly placed in the upper right corner. Placing them around the left/right/up/down arrows means you first have to put your fingers on the arrows in order to then move to the page up/down keys. That extra hunting around makes no sense as long as you assume page up/down are used more commonly than whatever else you’d put in the upper-right corner.
2.) The most common key combinations in the world are surely ctrl-x, ctrl-c, ctrl-v for cut, copy, & paste. Your middle three fingers are the ones to normally type x/c/v for “normal” touch-typists, so it’s only natural that he pinky be used for the ctrl key. Assuming this placement, you do not want to move the ctrl key so far away from x/c/v that it becomes uncomfortable (as it is with many other brands).
In summary, think about the most common operations and make them easiest. Also, assume your users know how to type. Don’t design a keyboard for people who don’t use the traditionally-taught manner to use a keyboard.
July 16th, 2008 2:25 pm
Make the keyboard layout as rectangle as possible and save as much space for notebooks. Lenovo should make a keyboard that better shows off the TrackPoint because for a first time user they think, “how can that thing move?” Create a keyboard that is raised like the MacBook and VAIO and what will it take to design backlights??
July 16th, 2008 11:03 pm
I’ve said this before, but I’ll say it again… KEEP THE WINDOWS KEY!
Win+E Win+R Win+F and Win+L are shortcuts I use daily. Also I use the Win key as a configurable hotkey for many apps (I use a Quicksilver clone and have it mapped to Win+Space).
What is disappointing is the new SL Thinkpad. The keyboard is now a more conventional 6 row layout without the traditional home row.
July 16th, 2008 11:04 pm
And one more thing: Backlight keys are crap without the lights. Keep them to the bling machines, thank you very much.
July 17th, 2008 1:15 pm
As someone who has used custom keyboard shortcuts years before MS decided it needed to label my keyboard, I can only say that Windows keys, especially the right one, are slowing me down significantly whenever I’m in any kind of text editing.
I don’t really feel any sympathy for people who use Win+*, since they obviously never took the trouble to learn certain kinds of efficency earlier.
July 17th, 2008 8:47 pm
It is indeed disappointing that some people have to suffer working in an editor all day because others can’t figure out how to map windows log off.
Maybe it would be a good idea to release a “Classic” pack, which would include a keyboard without windows keys and palm rest without trackpad. Actually maybe a “Classic” thinkpad would be nice.
July 24th, 2008 1:55 pm
Please consider putting the Control/Meta keys in places we expect them (control should be bottom left mappable to Caps-Lock). While Windows users can largely ignore these keys, for Unix/Emacs users, they are critical.
July 26th, 2008 1:12 am
Over the 3 months I’ve owned my Lenovo 3000 N200 0769A64 notebook, I’ve been driven up the wall by the stupid idea of putting ‘home’ as the function on ‘page up’; ‘end’ as the function on ‘page down’; and media controls as functions on the arrow cursor keys.
That piece of defective design makes doing any sort of text editing a pain in the butt, and playing media at best using those keys a pest.
Cursor controls should ALWAYS be single task keys.
Media controls should not be accessed as sub-functions of major keys on a notebook.
Because of the faulty keyboard layout on my Lenovo, I’ve been forced to get an external keyboard for it.
Jenifur Charne
August 4th, 2008 9:59 pm
One more vote for preference of Ctrl key being located outside the Fn key. I absolutely love my T61p, especially the perfect layout of six “edit” keys. But the Fn key placement was almost a deal-breaker. The windows key is understandably annoying to many people, but is EASILY remappable, unlike the Fn key which is hooked by the bios. (Windows: use AutoHotKey. Linux: compile your own) Ideally, holding down Fn should allow you to use the numpad keys without turning on num lock, but that’s getting picky
August 6th, 2008 3:20 pm
Being able to remap the Special (super) keys such as the windows key, to as second Ctrl key would be nice. As well as being able to swap the Ctrl and Fn keys. Someone mentioned that they liked the position of the Fn key to turn on the thinklight. And personally that is my biggest gripe for that key position. If I am sitting with someone and sharing the screen, then I often only really have one hand available, and there is no easy way then to turn the ThinkLight or adjust the backlight brightness one handed.
August 14th, 2008 3:16 am
PLESE remove the Fn key from the bottom left cornern.. its very very frustrating..
August 14th, 2008 9:12 am
Whilst I sympathise with users who have difficulty with keys that they do not use I don’t think it means that they should be removed. I am a programmer and a UI designer. Removing any keys for me would be irritating. I make extensive use of the windows key. Particularly and and my laptop keyboard would be severly crippled by removing the fn key.
Fundamentally the problem is the lack of standardisation. I have been through a number of keyboard layouts starting with the Vic 20 through Macintosh then a French AZERTY layout followed by Italian layout and various different laptop layouts. Each time I change it is frustrating. However as humans we are adaptable and can learn new layouts. It would be preferable for all big keyboard manufacturers to get together and define the standards and then implement them rather than to debate the various merits of the placements of individual keys.
The fundamental problem is that what is good for one person is not good for another. eg: most US users have little use for the £ pound sign but it is essential to UK users. Most of the opinions here seem to be about the relative merits of the positions of various keys. If you want to remap keys there are free programs out there on the web availble to do this.
I still regularly change between keyboards my laptop has a different layout from my desktop. I don’t like it but I can cope.
There is a lot to fit into a laptop keyboard.
My recomendation is to take the most common layouts add in any features that specialised groups who spend the majority of their working day typing such as programmers need. Make this a standard and get all the keyboard manufacturers to signup to it. After all if the standard were there wouldn’t you chose to have what you knew when you bought your next laptop.
August 14th, 2008 1:19 pm
Paul,
the issue some of us have with Windows keys is not in that we consider them superfluous in the strictest sense – e.g. we don’t need them, drop them – but that they are causing problems because of their location. Disabling them or remapping them isn’t really an option.
As far as keyboard layouts, since you’ve mentioned French and Italian: in all these years you’ve been using computers you’ve never had the idea to remap the keyboard to suit you, instead of changing yourself to suit the layouts? You’re obviously aware that it is possible.
August 14th, 2008 2:03 pm
If you want to access the Windows Aero function, you need to press Window key and Tab.
September 5th, 2008 10:51 pm
My $.02, listed in order of personal importance. Note that I use a t61p and this is my first lenovo laptop, so take any comments in such a context.
Please, please, provide a bios option to remap Fn/LCtrl key. I think this topic has been flogged to death but I just want to say that whomever was involved in this little ‘feature’ really dropped the ball in so casually breaking what is basically the last remaining universal standard for keyboards.
Keep the Ins/Del/Home/End/PgUp/PgDn keys near the arrow keys. On a normal keyboard when I am editing I can easily press the arrow keys and the home/end/del/ins/pgup/pgdon keys without moving my hand (just stretching fingers). This is no longer possible with the thinkpad keyboard. (I noticed in the survey you had some layouts with these keys on the UPPER LEFT of the keyboard?! Was this suggested by the same person who put the fn key in the bottom left? Please fire this person.)
The rollover layout on my keyboard is sometimes annoying for games (I know these are not gaming machines but they don’t do too badly) One particularly annoying blocking combo is Left+Up + any of Right/Spacebar/Down/Forward(the key above Right)/LAlt/RAlt.
Also the fact that any 3 adjacent letter keys not in a straight line block more often than not is quite annoying. Examples are:
QWA QWS WSA QAS
WES WED WSD ESD
ERD ERF EDF RDF
And so on. This is not really so conducive to gaming because of spatial locality principles. Yes, this does occur on other keyboards, there it is more the exception than the rule, while on the thinkpads it is the rule not the exception.
I would prefer the Esc key back in line with the Function keys. This is incredibly minor and I got over it within a week. Given space constraints, I consider it much more important to have the F1-4, F5-8, F9-12 keys seperated as you have done.
On Fn+X key. It is somewhat annoying to have the brightness and multimedia keys on the other side of the keyboard so you have to activate them with both hands (See also: Ctrl+Z/X/C/V).
Now that I’ve finished tearing into the keyboard, I should say that in terms of tactile feedback it is still the best I have ever experienced bar none. At the moment I would pick a lenovo keyboard over other laptops keyboards without hesitation (I should add that this is because I have mapped Caps Lock to Ctrl, and RAlt/TaskMenu/RCtrl/BrowserFwd/BrowserBack to PgDn/PgUp/Del/Home/End respectively. If this were not possible then I would probably have to opt for another keyboard, tactile joy be damned).
September 11th, 2008 11:50 pm
One more vote for a bios option to remap Fn/LCtrl key.
September 27th, 2008 8:02 am
About Fn and Left Ctrl keys.
Make it remappable, you idiots who made Fn key positioned at the one of four corners, one of the most important place in the keyboard, as if it is used more often then Ctrl! Ctrl was there since the last century, you eight years old brain dead retards, and has a factor of 100 larger usability. Total schizzz…
September 27th, 2008 8:04 am
Moderator, plzzz change typo
place -> places
Was so angry when typed
October 1st, 2008 7:37 pm
I have a ThinkPad T400. 3 things:
1) Please make the Fn and Ctrl keys remappable. I would prefer Ctrl on the outside, but I understand there are legions on ThinkPad users with the current layout burned into their brain.
Honestly, the best place for Fn would be at the top beside the ThinkVantage button, with a unique shape as the ThinkVantage button has. Fn is not a button used for common keyboard shortcuts, and I don’t think it makes sense to give it the best piece of real estate on the entire keyboard.
Which leads me to…
2) How about moving the “context menu” key to Fn+Win. It’s hardly ever used anyway, and when combined with #1, you’d go from 7 keys on the bottom row to just 5. I’m sure many ThinkPad users would stop hating the Windows key and appreciate the larger Ctrl and Alt keys.
3) Please make the arrow keys full-size. There is no reason for them to be smaller than normal keys. They are so commonly used, and already extend below the bottom of the keyboard anyway; they might as well be full size. I also find the browse back and forward buttons to be quite a hinderance; they make it much more difficult to “find” the arrow keys without looking at the keyboard. Not to mention that these keys are hardly necessary; all web browsers allow you to press “backspace” to go back, and alt+right works just fine for Forward.
Everything else about the keyboard is fantastic.
October 6th, 2008 10:19 am
http://www.mdk-photo.com/pictu.....yboard.jpg
do i need to say more ?
November 11th, 2008 7:49 pm
Reverse fn & ctrl, or make them re-mappable. I’m a typist; can’t stand this being backwards. This is the reason I returned two Thinkpads. That’s a waste of time, energy, money on both ends.
December 5th, 2008 12:37 am
Please see http://bi-polar23.blogspot.com.....dness.html.
In short, either the Ctrl key needs to be in the lower-left corner or else there needs to be an option to re-map Ctrl and Fn in the BIOS or in the OS. I could not agree with Ali Allie more. I don’t have the ability to return my ThinkPad, but I will never buy another one (or permit another one to be purchased for me) until one of these options (preferably the remapping option, so I can apply it to my x300) is implemented.
December 22nd, 2008 2:46 am
“please don’t move the Fn key as it’s been in the same spot for 15 years—then again, so have the PgUp/PgDn keys.”
Certainly , I agree with him or her.
January 4th, 2009 7:02 am
I love almost everything about the thinkpad keyboard (that’s one reason I bought it), but I desperately need a solution to the CTRL/FN key issue. I use many different computers and plug in a MS keyboard into my laptop at home (it’s just more comfortable to use) and I can’t get used to having FN on the bottom left. I would be happy with a utility to allows me to switch the CTRL/FN keys.
January 8th, 2009 9:28 am
Lose the Windows key completely. Allow remapping of Ctrl, Fn, and Alt, or move Fn to the top row by Thinkvantage, it’s rarely used anyway. Lose the page back and forward keys. I’ve never used the Context key — not even once. I’m a touch typist who has used Thinkpads back to the 570.
January 20th, 2009 3:20 pm
Fix the Ctrl/Fn debacle. It’s a mess. Don’t be held hostage to your old customers. 90% of them hate the placement of Fn anyway and will cheer you when you fix it. The other 10%? Well, they’re just twisted. If it was me, I’d move Fn up to the top row as a super-special, only push it every couple of months in any case, sort of key, like the ThinkVantage key (which I think could be totally thrown away, but I know you guys think you’re differentiating your product with it, but that’s another story).
Honestly, I will do everything in my power to buy another laptop brand until you guys fix this. Yes, it’s that important. I simply cannot express my pain on this issue.
April 23rd, 2009 12:51 pm
I recently brought the Lenovo Y430. Prior to that I have been using Dell for almost last 6 years. I’m developing love/hate relationship with th Lenovo. I love the keypad,built and performance of lenovo but the placement of function and ctrl key is swapped in lenovo.
I really don’t understand – why can’t all computer manufacturer agree up on a standard layout for laptop computers from a ky placement.
Is this a customer retaining strategy like the power adapter. When if a customer is used to a particular key board layout, they keep coming back for the same laptop upgrades and also they can use the previous laptop power adapter.
With the work of interoperability – these looks like lame tactics to lure customers….
April 24th, 2009 3:10 pm
Pls provide a BIOS fix for Lenovo Y430 to swap the fn and ctrl key… This should be the top priority for the BIOS Team – I’m sure this will increase the sale of LENOVO. I myself will start marketing this feature…. Pls Pls Pls….
May 8th, 2009 12:57 pm
My first ThinkPad is an X61, and I like it, except for the strange keyboard. F1 is in the usual place for Esc, and Esc is above it. This is very annoying, and so is having the Fn key where the left Ctrl usually is. Competitive Dells have normal keyboards, so I may switch to a Dell when I next upgrade.
For the bottom row, I’d like to see a normal one, like on a desktop keyboard, with full-sized keys, including both Windows keys, and no Fn key or arrow keys. Put the Fn key under the left Ctrl key and put the arrow keys under the right Windows/Application/Ctrl keys.
I use the Windows-key shortcuts all the time. If the Windows keys are removed, I will certainly not buy another ThinkPad.
May 12th, 2009 1:10 am
The FN key placement is wrong wrong wrong! Please change it now! I’d buy a new keyboard if there was one. Bios, another keyboard option- whatever. Change it! I have had the T400 for a month and cannot get used to the stupid fn placement key. My productivity is down because it. Standards? Fire the keyboard designer- what is he an alien? I’m a graphic designer and the FN placement is annoying beyond belief for me. I did uninstall the stupid resolution magnifier program which will no longer remind me of the insane design flaw of the keyboard. I would never have bought the Lenovo if I had known about the keypad issue. Other than that, I have no complaints- though it is an extreme annoyance for me. T400 is very fast and is merely a tool- a fast one of poor hardware design.
May 12th, 2009 6:02 pm
Bob,
The FN key is placed very well actually and is very easy to get used to, it is also very handy to have it there when you need to turn thinklight on in the dark. The Ctrl is not that comfortable though, before the stupid MS key appeared on the keyboard the Ctrl and Alt keys were much wider and were very comfortable to use.
May 13th, 2009 9:54 am
Please just try to maintain the build quality of your keyboards.
I believe it is crucial for almost every Thinkpad user that this stays the way it was for so long.
I am referring to the T400/T500 keyboards which seem to be of a little less quality.
If you cannot get your keyboard manufacturer to comply Lenovo’s reputation is going down the drain…
May 13th, 2009 4:16 pm
Why is it so hard to build a BIOS switch for swapping FN & CTRL ???
This is really the only really annoying thing about thinkpads
Why are you ignoring so many people?
June 5th, 2009 1:31 pm
The CTRL key belongs on the lower left corner. If every regular PC keyboard in universe has it in this place, how can you consider it acceptable to force all your customers to get used to something different? Keep in mind that many of your customers regularly have to use a different computer with a normal keyboard (e.g. at work vs. at home). You cannot “get used to” it when half the time your keyboard is one way and half the time it is the other way. Could you get used to the gas pedal on the left and the brake pedal on the right? If one of your cars was one way and the other car was the other way? The least you can do is to allow the keyboard to be customizable.
It’s time to acknowledge that the customer is Always Right.
June 19th, 2009 3:53 am
Long-time Thinkpad user. Please fix the Fn/Ctrl keys. This might even be a worthwhile enough fix for me to buy a new Thinkpad, even though my X200s is not that old.
Thank you!
June 19th, 2009 11:46 pm
I know you are getting hundreds of replies telling you to switch/not switch the Fn/Ctrl keys. Let me put my vote in by saying don’t mess with the position. I actually prefer it the way it is. When doing Ctrl shortcuts it is actually closer to the center of the keyboard and I don’t have to stretch my hands as far. But perhaps you could implement a BIOS option to swap it for those new to ThinkPads.
June 23rd, 2009 10:41 am
I have to totally agree with the following quote:
“The CTRL key belongs on the lower left corner. If every regular PC keyboard in universe has it in this place, how can you consider it acceptable to force all your customers to get used to something different? Keep in mind that many of your customers regularly have to use a different computer with a normal keyboard (e.g. at work vs. at home). You cannot “get used to” it when half the time your keyboard is one way and half the time it is the other way. Could you get used to the gas pedal on the left and the brake pedal on the right? If one of your cars was one way and the other car was the other way? The least you can do is to allow the keyboard to be customizable.”
I’m so annoyed. Please provide a free fix, Lenovo.
June 24th, 2009 6:29 pm
[...] used. The tilde key on my system has no visible wear. Additionally we analyzed responses to a survey that I posted on this topic that allowed us to get even richer data, including respondant comments. [...]
June 30th, 2009 2:36 am
What is the rational behind placing the Fn key where the CTRL key usually is? It’s just ridiculous and causes more headaches for users.
July 5th, 2009 7:21 pm
Please, please implement a BIOS option to swap Fn & CTRL – it’s driving me absolutely crazy.
I’ve read that several other laptop makers have enabled this – what keeps you from programming this popular request?
A ‘Delete’ also belongs to where the right ctrl is located right now – who uses right ctrl? I don’t use ever but I use ‘delete’ every minute and when it was located right under my right thumb, I could hit it blindly which is not a case right now – I have to look it up every single time.
Everything else is superb with Lenovo – please just fix these two keys – and especially FN+CTRL.
July 5th, 2009 8:07 pm
I recently bought a lenovo x301, and love it, except for one thing: the Fn Key position. I use multiple computers, and just cannot get used to not having the Ctrl key in the bottom left corner. Instead I made my capslock into an extra control, since that is easier to get used to. Since I already bought the laptop, any changes to future keyboards is irrelevant to me, but please make it a bios option to switch the ctrl and fn keys so I can upgrade my bios and get a sane keyboard layout again. By all means keep the current layout as default, but let me swap them in the bios. I avoided buying a Mac for a couple reasons but one of them was the funky keyboard layout. As much as I love my lenovo, I am likely to avoid buying a Lenovo in the future purely on the basis of the stupid Fn key position.
July 15th, 2009 5:01 am
Tried to complete the survey, but it said the account had expired.
Change the FN and CTRL and I will buy a Lenovo, don’t and I won’t
July 17th, 2009 10:44 pm
As it seems the keyboard is very important for you , the designers of the Lenovo , but also for your customers .
Many of whom , I think , chose Thinkpad because of (among other things) the very good keyboard , nonetheless , everyone has personal likes and dislikes .
So please put the users in control of their keyboard , let them create their ideal keyboard with an on-line application . In this application they will be able to choose from standard components and default prints ( blank , dvorak , arensito , qwerty , azerty , etc. ) .
Also , please put the windows-key in the bin , that is , remove the windows-logo from your keyboard , out a star or a home there , or just leave it blank . Or do you get extraordinary amounts of money from Microsoft to do this ?
July 20th, 2009 1:43 pm
This survey link has expired… https://vovici.com/wsb.dll/s/13e80g35531
I’d quite like to take this survey as I really dislike the location of the Fn key and Esc key on my Lenovo x61. Please fix it and update the blog posting to mention this, or ideally make a new posting so it shows up in RSS.
July 26th, 2009 4:43 pm
I promise my next laptop will be a Thinkpad – if and only if you fix the FN/Ctrl mess – be it fixed or remappable. Nice brake/gas pedal analogy above ! Have to add that i sold my T41 after 3 months trying to get used to the FN/CTRL thing, so i really tried. Just got somewhat tired of having all my writings constantly replaced by c just when i thought i copy&paste via ctrl+c but was hitting fn+c instead ….
August 4th, 2009 10:11 am
just out of pure frustration, I wanted to add a comment here about the annoying locations of CTRLFn and F1 (should be next to esc, above 1).
Glad to get it off my chest.
September 2nd, 2009 1:07 pm
Everybody which is used to shortcuts will run into problems with this keyboard. Please make it swappable!!!!!1
Until then: does anybody know if there is a registry hack for windows?
December 11th, 2009 7:31 pm
The only play I could possibly get used to my ThinkPad keyboard was to rip off the function key and the F1 key, as well as remapping the Page Up/Down keys to Delete/Insert and vice versa. Which also involved switching the physical keys, of course.
Luckily I’ve recently purchased a Dell, so I no longer have to deal with my ThinkPad’s crap. Absolutely complete garbage. Anyone who has *attempted* to press the ctrl key on my ThinkPad is in utter disbelief.
December 11th, 2009 7:31 pm
The only way*
Christ…too angry. Making type-o’s.
December 12th, 2009 6:27 pm
Myden, I wish you the best of luck with your Dell and hope it satisfies your needs. At the same time I will enjoy the placement of the ctrl key on my TP, as it unlike the outboard position favoured by most manufacturers doesn’t hurt my odd hands to reach.
I don’t understand why there is so much noise about keyboard layout, it shouldn’t come as a surprise to anyone that the TP-keyboard is different from most others. Some of us prefer the TP-layout, others prefer other layouts, can’t we just each stick with the layout and manufacturer we like instead of trying to push “our” layout on others?
December 14th, 2009 2:03 am
Hi, I am wondering if anyone knows what the maximum amount of memory can be installed in a lenovo 3000 J205 TYPE-9686 , Model-A12 OPER SYS-
Vista MANIFACTURE DATE July 12, 2005. It currently has one 512Mb stick. I would like to replace with At leat 2Gb stick x2. Can you answer?
January 7th, 2010 5:19 pm
Having fn placed where ctrl should be is HORRIBLE.
Don’t you guys ever use hotkeys?
The lack of a left windows-key is also quite bad. I don’t know how many times per day i press win+d or win+e. On windows 7 you also have win+any number to switch between pinned applications which i use all the time.
January 28th, 2010 12:51 am
Pleeeease for the love of Thinkpad and our sanity, at least give us an option in the bios to swap the Fn and Ctrl keys…
And if possible, please FIRE whoever decided to swap the Fn and Ctrl keys… WORST DESIGN DECISION EVER!
I’m literally contemplating returning my new Thinkpad T410 just because of this. You see, I’m a developer and rely on CTRL-C/V/etc all day and find myself cursing at what would otherwise be an incredible laptop.
PLEASE FIX THIS!!! At least a bios swapping option, that can’t be hard…
January 28th, 2010 1:25 am
My new 410 allows you to change the setting in the bios… maybe there is a god after all
January 28th, 2010 4:57 am
Brendan, your T410 should already have the bios swap:
http://lenovoblogs.com/yamato/.....anguage=en
In my opinion, having fn and ctrl opposite of most other companies is one of the best design decisions they have made, I find reaching for ctrl on non-thinkpads physically painful.
February 2nd, 2010 5:55 pm
The only reason I’m not the owner of a Thinkpad is the insane position of the Fn key. Now I read that new Thinkpads have a BIOS swap. Good! If the Fn and Ctrl keys were the same size, and were physically swappable, I would buy a Thinkpad tomorrow!!!
February 4th, 2010 6:43 pm
Well now I know about the BIOS swap from this thread. Thanks! I’m guessing it might be available on my X200. But now I’m stuck with a choice:
a) Switch it (perhaps leaving them mislabeled) and have to stretch for CTRL, and get used to the change, or
b) Leave it and keep suffering putting my computer into standby unintentionally (THAT is annoying!) because CTRL-F4 is close tab, and Fn-F4 is go to standby.
Hmm. Now that I think about it, if I keep making that mistake, then I guess my fingers _want_ the CTRL key further to the left.
I’ll look for the BIOS swap!
April 10th, 2010 7:06 pm
+1 for the ctrl being to the right of fn. Maybe it is my small hands and years of using thinkpads, but I quite like it. Now this HP that I’m being forced to switch to seriously sucks, (keys are in the “wrong” place for my muscle memory). And I totally agree -f4 and the machine goes to sleep… lame. So, what is the solution? I like the bios idea, wish HP had that but so far (at least this model) doesn’t.
June 25th, 2010 5:50 am
PLEASE make the keyboard layout more like the old thinkpads. I’m swapping a lot between my X31 and an X200 and I keep hitting the wrong keys on the X200 (this never happens on the X31). E.g. I hit fn instead of control, the bloody windows key instead of control or alt, zero instead of dash.
it also doesn’t feel as nice (tactile, responsive, deep, smooth) as my old X31.
I was thinking about buying an X300, but my experience with the keyboard of this X200 has put me off.