TrackPoint vs. Touch Pad
August 12, 2008
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Ask most any ThinkPad fan what pointing device they prefer and the answer will be unanimous: the trademark TrackPoint. A group of CNET editors came together recently asking the same question about a “new ultraportable laptop” that is equipped with a “pointing stick, but no touch pad.” I wonder which laptop it could be.
Head over to the CNET post and let them know which pointing device you prefer, and tell them where you came from.
David Hill
Lenovo Meet the Modder Dean Liou
Lenovo Meet the modder- Chris Blarsky Dairy 2
Lenovo Meet the modder- Chris Blarsky Dairy 1
Lenovo H320 desktop
August 12th, 2008 11:16 am
Love TrackPoins! visited CNET and voted.
August 12th, 2008 11:36 am
There seems to be a learning / adapting curve for the pointing stick (TrackPoint) that require some eye-hand coordination adjustments (just try to remember how your granny adjust to the use of a computer mouse when you first introduced it to her), in contrary to the touch pad (TrackPad) which does not have almost any learning curve to make it work faster. But once laptop users have been adapted to the TrackPoint (a higher quality ergonomically designed pointing stick of ThinkPad, unlike those not so usable sticks that I tried on a few Dell laptops), they will suddenly have an ‘Aha’ about the keyboard home-row philosophy of the TrackPoint inventor, and afterwards addict to the idea of staying at the home-row for much swifter and more natural shifting between typing and pointer control.
Therefore, a poll result of touch pad dominating in CNET may not reflect the genuine user experiences of those who took time to convert to the TrackPoint – quite a few may have just given it up on the first few trials and missed the whole picture of its ergonomics and precision.
A possible caveat of the TrackPoint design is that prolonged usage of it may hurt the finger tips (I alternate between my right hand index finger, and middle finger for the TrackPoint). While TrackPoint is a gem for the majority text-based tasks, it is not the best choice of pointing device for action video games and tasks that have intensive use of the pointer (e.g. photo editing, video editing, vector graphical drawing).
I am sure every true ThinkPad advocate will detest the idea of introducing a TrackPad on the most traditional X series. For those who love the X200 series, but do really need to use the pointing device for an extended period of time occasionally, maybe Lenovo can introduce something similar to the wireless MoGo Mouse (a mouse that gets recharged and stores in the PCMCIA slot http://www.newtonperipherals.com/products.html ) with some more Lenovo innovations.
August 12th, 2008 11:46 am
It’s not only the TrackPoint but the rims as well. I prefer the soft rim because it doesn’t leave indentations on your finger after long use, and is generally easier to use. This, in addition to the middle mouse button, makes the TrackPoint in a class by itself and I can’t imagine switching to a laptop without.
August 12th, 2008 11:50 am
Also I think the Touch Pad may be more popular because first time users find it easier (hence it’s easier to sell in the store). Much like glossy screens, it’s better in the store than at home.
August 12th, 2008 12:06 pm
David, will we see the blue and red Trackpoint button stripes on Thinkpads other than the X300? I had hoped they were back for good.
August 12th, 2008 12:40 pm
I use the Trackpoint on my Thinkpad, but I can use either. What I hate though are the touchpads that are centered on the notebook instead of centered on the keyboard. I would keep accidentally touching the pad with my right palm.
August 12th, 2008 12:48 pm
Both are good
August 12th, 2008 1:09 pm
i agree with sriram, love the middle button and default trackpoint cap (i have older dell at work which is not really comfortable)
August 12th, 2008 7:40 pm
Centered on the notebook is just not right.
August 12th, 2008 7:42 pm
I have an x60 and a t61p. love my x60 and first thing I did on my t61p yes even before installing ubuntu, was to disable the touchpad! Trackpoint FTW!
August 12th, 2008 9:23 pm
I’ve the 2 in my T60 but i use only the trackpoint, sometimes, i turn on the touch pad for my friends.
August 13th, 2008 12:40 am
both of my parents are in their sixties and each picked up on using the trackpoint in a matter of minutes.
August 13th, 2008 4:52 am
I make no apologies for being a TrackPoint nazi – if I know anyone with a ThinkPad who uses the TouchPad then I will constantly moan at them until they give the TrackPoint a fair chance. I used to use Sony notebooks until about 1998 when I switched to ThinkPads and at that point you had no choice but to use the TrackPoint but since then I know how superior a pointing device it is and if I see a review stating that a system ‘ONLY has a TrackPoint’ then it drives me insane.
There are a couple of problems that I see with the usage of a TrackPoint – it takes about a month to really get good at using it and it also takes a bit of education (I see a lot of users with bad hand positions or attempting to flick at it) whereas a TouchPad is usable immediately for most people. There is also the issue that every other manufacturer that attempts a pointing stick in their notebooks gets it wrong and this will have put a lot of people off, the implementation of them on Dells/HPs/Sonys etc are unusable compared with a ThinkPad.
One thing I know for sure though, I see a lot of TouchPad users bring out external mice every chance they get, I very rarely see a TrackPoint user do the same which speaks volumes for the effectiveness of each pointing device.
August 13th, 2008 11:56 am
Incidentally, it seems the new Dell’s have a three button mouse and the soft rim type track points. The new precision even has a three button mouse for the touch pad.
August 13th, 2008 1:20 pm
With Mac touchpads, iPods, and Dell Lattitude XT tablet screens, all supporting multitouch[1], it seems TrackPoint is becoming a precision additional pointing device, to be used in conjunction with a pad, rather than something which can replace a touchpad.
[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-touch – Lenovo needs to let go of its now contra-standard definition.
August 14th, 2008 2:55 pm
TrackPoint all the way baby!
(I voted too)
August 15th, 2008 10:42 am
Lenovo: Keep the trackpoint – and a lid that closes with a latch – on your machines and I’ll be a happy man.
August 15th, 2008 12:09 pm
i don’t think Lenovo is ever going to drop the red trackpoint from Thinkpad, it is the icon of Thinkpad.
August 15th, 2008 2:32 pm
After the pathetic copy of a REAL Thinkpad (Lenovo SL series), i’m sure that Lenovo will not remove the red trackpoint…
If it’s done, it will be the third world war for sure…
August 17th, 2008 4:57 pm
Agreed with Christian: Raging ThinkPad users vs all. Lol!
I could not ever use a notebook that has the pad. I used a work issue Dell for a short while. By the third day, I popped open the keyboard and manually disabled the thing. No easy feat compared to Thinkpads mind you.
August 18th, 2008 5:59 pm
No need to ask, there is no better, more tactile or precise build in mouse pointing device available for notebooks than an original Thinkpad-TrackPoint. – Best of all for keyboard enthusiast, you can leave your hands on the keyboard and even then perform quick ergonomic mouse operations and clicks. There is no need to move your hands from the typing area down in order to perform some mouse operations.
IMO a TrackPoint is one of the best features ThinkPads do offer!
Uhhh, that X200 looks pretty nice, when does Lenovo send me one for tryouts…?
August 24th, 2008 8:08 pm
I prefer a real mouse. I’ve used the trackpoint for many years and I like it in principle, but it causes pain in my hands if I use it too much. I’ve never liked trackpads but decided to try it for a while when I got my T61. I found that it’s easier on the hands than the trackpoint, but way too easy to brush against by accident and make the cursor jump around. I eventually had to turn it off in the machine configuration, in order to prevent messing things up by touching it by accident.
August 26th, 2008 2:18 pm
Years ago, I despised the touchpoint on coworkers’ laptops until I caved in and got an X20 and a tiny USB optical mouse. I quickly discovered that the trackpoint was great and stopped carrying the mouse.
Years and many Thinkpads later, I have always disable the trackpad in my T-series laptops and now just ordered a new X200.
I also ordered a full-size USB Lenovo keyboard (just like the T-series keyboard plus a numeric keypad) with trackpoint and touchpad for my desktop Linux PC. I won’t use the real mouse except for certain graphics tasks. My only gripe: there is no dip-switch to disable the trackpad, so I’m going to have to dig around and see if there is some software hack to disable it on Linux.
September 1st, 2008 2:07 pm
I like the TrackPoint much better than a touchpad and even better than a traditional mouse. In fact it is the main reason why I am loyal to the ThinkPad brand.
The TrackPoint on my old but trusted R40 is quite close to my ideal control device, with one drawback only: I cannot set the sensitivity as high as I would like.
I believe that’s the solution to the problem of hand fatigue: on the factory default setting, I find the TrackPoint quite fatiguing, and after prolonged usage even painful, as others have reported. At the maximum sensitivity setting (which takes a little adjusting, much like the TrackPoint itself) scrolling or any equally slow cursor movement no longer requires any pressure, and therefore no fatigue.
But still I wish I could move the cursor even faster with the same minimal pressure—a lighter touch, after all, is always possible.
September 8th, 2008 8:06 pm
*Please* add a feature to the windows Trackpoint driver that switches the middle button from one mode to the other based on how long the button is held down. Linux (e.g. Ubuntu 8.04) has this feature and it makes the Trackpoint absolutely marvelous to use. However, in windows (At least, Vista x64 that I’m using) this feature is non-existent, and it makes web browsing and other tasks that require both a middle button and browsing a chore. Middle buttons allow quick and easy opening and closing of tabs in modern web browsers and other applications (such as Visual Studio). However, without the scrolling feature enabled, moving through blogs, websites and other applications with large amounts of data in a column or row is intolerable on a Thinkpad. Other laptops have dedicated scrolling devices or areas in the touchpad. The Trackpoint device is vastly preferable for mousing, but of course has no dedicated scrolling device or functionality.
To some degree, you can work around this. CTRL+W works in most browsers. However, this combination will not work in Visual Studio. And many other applications similarly need a dedicated middle button for tasks other than tab management. Otherwise, we’re forced to right-click or dig through menus to use the same functionality.
Example usage in ubuntu (once configured):
Tap the middle button and it functions as the middle button on the mouse. Hold the middle button for a specified period of time (or hold it and begin moving the nubbin) and it will scroll for you.
Having to change modes from the system tray, the control panel or with a hotkey is unacceptable. This takes far too much time and UI navigation for such a simple and intrinsic task. Also, have you considered adding a Fn+Middle Button combination? This could easily be adapted to the Zoom functionality for users who must use all three features.
Thinkpads are laptops for users who need to get things done. Please consider allowing multiple functions to be assigned to the trackpoint like this automatically, instead of forcing users to choose which essential feature they need less. Also, please consider adding an option to disable the scrolling graphic. I have occasionally noticed lag on switching between the pointer graphics, and would rather streamline it as much as possible.
I’d do it myself, but there are EULAs and such on the Trackpoint software, and working without source is such a pain. Also, 64-bit vista requires signed drivers, which would make outside fixing much more involved.
September 16th, 2008 8:34 am
Touchpad is useless!!!
Thanks for inventing the Trackpoint.
November 27th, 2008 2:25 pm
Does anyone knows of any study comparing speed of trackpoint vs touchpad in a typical task mix ?
There are many studies comparing trackpoint vs touchpad performance (for example http://www.psych.rwth-aachen.d.....rmOeM.pdf).
All studies find that touchpad performance slightly outperforms trackpoint (10-15%). These studies are flawed, however: they only focus on measuring pointing performance ONLY, and do not include any typing tasks.
The real work on a computer, however, is always a mix of pointing and typing tasks. I believe that trackpoint would significantly outperform touchpad under such conditions, because user can leave hands on the keyboard “home row”. I am looking for any studies confirming this thesis ?
December 7th, 2008 7:16 pm
I’ve been mystified for years watching people in Starbucks, libraries and other places frantically rubbing away at their touch-pads.
Stroking, cajoling & ice-skating their way sloppily from one part of the screen to another. Their lovely new laptops soon had that worn-out, shiny look on the hand rest – ruining its appearance forever.
It never made sense – until now.
As an electronics manufacturing engineer – and long-time TrackPoint user – here are some points to consider.
1: Touchpads were cheaper to manufacture than TrackPoints and so quickly became the standard.
The thinking was – they could be schlepped out the door by the boatload – and if anyone complained how they worked – well too bad – they’d be a standard soon so tough noogies.
They even had to create special software to “teach” it some table-manners (burp!).
And so touch-pads became like the Internet Explorer – people thought they “preferred” it only because they were never allowed to try anything else.
2: The few remaining TrackPoint manufacturers are not created equal. Earlier models (and those from non-IBM suppliers) can’t compare to later model Thinkpad TrackPoints. There is simply no comparing their performance.
So take a minute to set the sensitivity & speed to your taste and stop suffering.
3: If you’re not a touch-typist – but a hunt & pecker – then you’d never appreciate the TrackPoint anymore than you’d appreciate the benefits of proper typing.
You’re already ice-skating anyway, so what’s a little more work – rubbing that magic lantern at the bottom of your keyboard ?
And who knows ? Someday a genie might appear – and grant you a wish !
4: How could anyone not like a late-model TrackPoint that can repeatedly visit any spot on the screen on the first attempt – without overshooting, backing down the turnpike, asking the wife for directions and double parking near the fire-hydrant – before arriving at your destination ?
A TrackPoint drops you right on the street corner in one shot. Its like a Bic pen – writes first time – every time. (For those old enough to remember the TV commercial).
Besides – normal people wouldn’t dream of ice-skating on the freeway. Its just too dangerous.
Rob
December 8th, 2008 7:05 am
SR71 – the problem with the study you link is that 1) They dont use a ThinkPad and 2) These are people with no experience of either. Touchpads are easier to first use for most people as they are more intuitive than the TrackPoint, but after a couple of months of usage, the TrackPoint becomes far superior Once you become good with a TrackPoint then it should be much faster for precise pointing even if you exclude the other benefits like faster typing transition and more accurate scrolling.
December 8th, 2008 8:56 am
My first laptop was 701c butterfly running openbsd 2.4. Untill about 2005, all i used was the trackpoint, after that i flipped between a macbook and a thinkpad. So im good with both.
The trackpad has gestures (H and V scroll, tap/drag etc), no resistance, and no possesed pointers. the trackpoint is a little more precise and faster at some precision movements. Overall i actually prefer the trackpad, even if it is “slower”
I find it funny (corp pride?) that the tablets have trackpoints intead of pads. the pen is better than the trackpoint at what the trackpoint is better than the trackpad is. so i think it would have made more sense to do it the other way. I realize the trackpoint is more convenient than the pen but so is the pad, and you would have a wider range. Both would better.
Maybe in the x301t will feature ultranav if it ever exists. While im dreaming ill ask for an FDE drive, and a geforce 9400M (the low wattage gpu in the new macbook that uses about the same amount of power and runs circles around the card lenovos using for thier current light notebooks)
December 28th, 2008 6:50 pm
I’ve used ThinkPads now for a few years and I must say there’s a lot to be said for the touchpad. I find for intricate mouse work I can do a lot better with it, and it’s also in just the right place on my T43p that I can scroll using my right thumb whilst still remaining on the keyboard!
I do use the TrackPoint for a lot though – casual mouse work, as it were – but nothing will replace a touchpad for me. It’s one of the major reasons I went for the X300 instead of the X200s for a replacement laptop (I previously used a T43p and an X40).
Overall – very pleased that Lenovo have opted to keep the UltraNav lineup in their systems, but I am a little disappointed they’re now using the ALPS touchpad instead of Synaptics… I can’t drag using the touchpad whilst holding down one of the TrackPoint buttons anymore (instead of using the touchpad buttons below)! Does anyone know of a solution to this?
January 11th, 2009 6:09 am
Hi All,
please help extending the wikipedia article about TrackPoint:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trackpoint
February 21st, 2009 12:54 am
“One thing I know for sure though, I see a lot of TouchPad users bring out external mice every chance they get, I very rarely see a TrackPoint user do the same which speaks volumes for the effectiveness of each pointing device.”
So true… I used a T42p for like 5 years, loved my trackpoint. I had bought a wireless mouse for gaming but honestly i rarely got it out. Now i have a toshiba, great multimedia machine but its driving me nuts not having my trackpoint. Good thing i bought that wireless mouse i can barely stand to use the system without it.
February 21st, 2009 11:32 pm
“The trackpad has gestures (H and V scroll, tap/drag etc), no resistance, and no possesed pointers. the trackpoint is a little more precise and faster at some precision movements. Overall i actually prefer the trackpad, even if it is “slower””
Try to crank up the mouse ‘pointer speed’ and the trackpoint sensitivity (LightTouch) all the way up, and turned off ‘Enhanced pointer precision’. The “resistance”, is due to that, and the “possesed pointers” are due to leaning on the trackpoint, which you would do less once you apply these settings.
April 18th, 2010 8:37 am
Very dissapointed with new widescreen-only Thinkpads, thought THEY thought about usability instead of hype. Not apt for writing documents. Less agile Web browsing. Too little overwiew in spreadsheets. Not apt for business, “serious” use. Application development, coding. Only good for movies. Increases width unnecessarily of laptops and enlarges the distance of the visible area from user. VERY VERY BAD DESIGN decision to only offer widescreen versions. Can’t believe it, feels like betrayal!;-)
April 18th, 2010 8:40 am
SORRY, previous post belongs to the discussion of WIDESCREENS. Have put i there myself. PLEASE DELETE the previous