ThinkPad W700 Notebook Announced
Today Lenovo announces the ThinkPad W700 notebook. To me, this is the most exciting ThinkPad announcement all year. Not because it is our first 17″ ThinkPad notebook ever. Not because this is one of the powerful machines on the planet (Awe inspiring levels of powerful). No, what has me excited is that this machine was designed from the ground up for photographers.
I know many out there consider Apple to be the standard for photo work, but I think our company has shot a significant salvo across the proverbial Macintosh bow that challenges that dominance. Let me tell you a bit about the ThinkPad W700 and then you can let me know in the comments if you agree or not.
First – you’ll notice the new letter designation. A few weeks ago we announced our first W series, the ThinkPad W500 mobile workstation. Previously we used “p” to designate our mobile workstations. The workstation category of machines has grown significantly in the last few years – so much so that Lenovo decided it needed its own category. Now when you think “ThinkPad W Series” from Lenovo, we want you to associate “W” with “workstation.” A workstation has these attributes: top bin CPUs, ISV software certification, OpenGL graphics solutions, as well as gobs of memory and hard disk space.
Our solution doesn’t disappoint. It features next generation Intel Quad Core Extreme Edition processor choices. It has space for integrated dual HDDs, configurable in RAID 0 (data striping), or RAID 1 (data mirroring) setups. (Yes there are SSD options too). Main memory is expandable to 8GB and the nVIDIA graphics solutions have up to 1GB of graphics memory.
So there is definitely plenty of power. In fact, you can see that its Windows Vista experience score is nearly off the charts. Today, 5.9 is the absolute maximum score possible in any one category. We hit that and bump up against it in several other categories as well.
So it has brawn, but you can rightfully say at this point that I’ve mentioned absolutely nothing about what it offers for photographers. In other words, “So what’s the big deal?”
The big deal starts with a beautiful 17″ Widescreen 1920×1200 display with 400 nits of brightness. What’s more, this display displays 72% of the possible color gamut of the Adobe RGB color space. In comparison, most normal laptop displays only show 45% of the Adobe RGB color space, and for this photographer, are absolutely inadequate (read: SUCK). This means that this display is capable of showing more colors than most nearly every other display available – laptop or desktop. A 19″ 72% color gamut display for a desktop costs north of $700, so you aren’t likely to find it at your nearest Best Buy. High end displays like these are usually reserved for graphics professionals. In fact, many of these professionals are still using CRT tube displays because most LCD displays just aren’t good enough. This ThinkPad display is more than good enough.
(Now I know at this point many of you are going to bemoan our lack of IPS display options for your notebooks and will use this post as a catalyst to comment further. Think of this new announcement as adding a high quality display option which we haven’t had in a long time and a step in the right direction. For those of you who don’t know what I’m referring to, here’s my earlier post on the subject.)
Any photographers who are serious about getting their colors right will calibrate their displays so that the colors match what they expect. You want your reds or greens to look exactly as you envisioned them. Without color calibration, you are at the mercy of your lab to get it right. Sadly, most often, they get it wrong. To help these people, we are introducing, to my knowledge, the industry’s first integrated color calibration equipment on a notebook PC. This isn’t a “cheapest rules” color calibrator, but is Pantone’s X-Rite calibrator with HueyPRO software. These are well respected names in the industry. On this ThinkPad, calibration is very easy and is done with the lid closed. You also can see the before and after images so that you get visual confirmation that everything is correct. I have never done any photo editing on any laptop before precisely because of the lack of a wide color gamut or color calibration. This will now change.
The next goodie is an optional WACOM digitizer. WACOM is the same company that makes the digitizer for our ThinkPad X Series Tablet PCs and is again, a well respected industry leader in digitizer technology. The digitizer is especially useful in Photoshop for defining selections, creating masks, or any of about a thousand other tasks. You can map it 1:1 with the entire notebook display, or using a control applet, can map it to a selected area of your screen. It is really cool. I’ve never used a digitizer tablet before when photo editing. The amount of precision control is just amazing compared to a standard mouse.
When you’re at your desk, you will find it integrates well with your workflow. This machine has three ways to connect external displays – VGA, Dual Link DVI, and DisplayPort all built into the side. I wish it could drive three displays at once using each one of those ports, but sadly only two simultaneous displays for now. Perhaps a future version will have this capability.
There is a 7 in 1 card reader built in, and you can also add an integrated Compact Flash reader as an option to replace the Smart Card or Express Card 54 slot. There’s also an optional port replicator with an eSATA port so that you can backup to your network storage device at your office or home.
Admittedly this isn’t our lightest weight machine, but think about what it can do to reduce the clutter in your bag. You can leave behind your color calibrator and USB cable. You can leave behind your digitizer. Since there is support for a second built in HDD, you can have instant backups and leave your external USB HDD at home. This saves time because for the first time you can actually edit in the field or on the airplane ride home vs. having to wait to get to your “real” machine later.
And to top all of these great features, it’s a ThinkPad. It has rock solid design and is built like a tank, not a fragile toy. Just like you buy professional cameras for their build quality, you choose a ThinkPad for the same reasons.
It has thoughtful design touches that are designed for people who actually want to use this system day in and day out. Things like our legendary keyboard, thoughtful ergonomics, and ThinkVantage Technologies designed to help make your life easier, not complicate it.
It has the best service and support in the business.
Can you tell I’m excited? This is a phenomenal piece of equipment unlike anything that has ever been done before in the industry. But of course, I have a few wish list items to improve the next version.
- I’d like to have a Photoshop overlay template option for the keyboard. Photoshop has a myriad of keyboard shortcuts that are nearly impossible to remember unless you use them every day.
- I’d like to have an integration bundle with Adobe that includes Photoshop and Lightroom preloaded on the system – preferably at a bundled price.
- I’d like GPS capability. Geotagging is about the only option I can think of for us mere mortals to care about integrated GPS devices.
- For a machine this big, a carrying handle would be quite useful, though I think my esteemed colleague, Mr. Hill and fellow members of the Corporate Identity team would heartily disagree.
- Wi-Fi software tuned for wireless camera sync. Many of the newer SLR cameras have Wi-Fi capabilities in them to wirelessly transmit photos as they are being shot. I can easily imagine a wedding photographer who brings his/her assistant with them. While the ceremony is going on, the assistant is sitting in the back of the church, editing in real time as the images flow into the PC. How cool would it be to have ceremony pictures already available for viewing at a slide show at the couple’s reception? The WOW factor would be HUGE and great for future business. (Or even repeat business if you happen to be a Hollywood celebrity.)
- I’d LOVE to have a built in battery charger for four AA batteries. This way when I’m out and about with my SB-600 and SB-800 external flashes, I could leave one more thing at home and always be sure of having a source power for battery hungry flashes.
Now it’s your turn. Are you as excited as I am about this machine? Did we get it right? What would YOU like to see on version 2?
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UPDATE 8/30/08
Our ThinkPad team has been able to do some more performance tuning of the W700 system since I last posted. Now it gets straight 5.9s for the Vista Experience Score. As you may recall 5.9 is currently the highest possible score available on a Windows system.
For the naysayers, yes, this is a cherrypicked configuration with maxed out specs, however, aren’t all benchmarks? It just shows what this system is capable of. I’d argue that if the scores went higher, this system would probably score better still.
Lenovo Meet the Modder Dean Liou
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Lenovo H320 desktop
August 12th, 2008 1:47 am
the screen specs (gamut range) and integrated color calibration are huge steps in the right direction (VS today’s junk glossy/matte low end stuff)
August 12th, 2008 3:02 am
This is one beast of a machine, and I wish I could buy one right now (sigh)…
As long as the digitizer pad can be configured out, it’s fine with me… I would gladly have the rest for my work… 8GB of RAM, quad-core and dual hard drive is just too sweet for a development machine!
Will the X300 be the only Thinkpad that will have the return of the blue and red stripes? Seems that the new T, R, X and W series dont have the stripes … pretty sad about that…
August 12th, 2008 3:05 am
This is the Ferrari of ThinkPads and as such it will not sell nearly as many as the other ThinkPads you guys offer, but regardless of that fact, well done for building a bloody monster!
I hope we see technology in this sucker trickle down into other notebooks, mainly my dream machine would be an X200 with the ability to power a 30 inch LCD.
One can only dream.
August 12th, 2008 3:28 am
oh whoa, this sure going to shut some people about how inferior Lenovo Thinkpads are. This is the best news i have heard about Lenovo all these years. The only thing i wish i have more of is more cash. This probably going to cost fair amount which is fair enough for the amount of technology and feature it is packing.
August 12th, 2008 5:00 am
Its not oftened I get wowed these days by computers (although the X300 did have that effect too) but this system is awesome, its really nice to innovation is not dead in the notebook arena; features like built in graphics tablet and huey are fantastic. As a previous user/fanatic of the A30/A31 but using mostly X series in recent years, i really am drawn to the behemoth CPU, 8GB RAM, RAID and 400 nit (long overdue) – I might just need to get one of these.
Also, it really is so ugly that is is strangely good looking.
August 12th, 2008 5:01 am
A touch sensitive screen would be nice although conventional ways of implementing them seem to dull the display.
What would be really killer for me would be retracting cables built into the laptop. I have to carry USB normal, USB mini, iPod, Nokia phone etc. I have no idea how much internal space is left but I am sure your engineers could find a way to pack in some cables with changeable ends
August 12th, 2008 9:15 am
Roger Binns, in an ideal world, I couldn’t agree more, however, due to the thinness required for retractable cables, they are not suitable for all devices (like hdds etc) and tend to have a short lifespan so this might not be that practical.
On the same note though, I still fondly remember the workpad cradle from the Ultrabay Plus on the A30 and cant help but wish for an ipod/iphone cradle with the same functionality.
August 12th, 2008 10:10 am
I’d love to be able review it…and borrow it…and buy it…gimme gimme!
August 12th, 2008 10:17 am
What lcd panel technology is exactly used ? Does it mean Lenovo has finally noticed good old FlexView panels and let us enjoy IPS panels again ? Or is it just a marketing trick with “better” TN panel where the specs might be valid from direct viewing angle only. Wider gamut would be useless with TN panel anyway. More technical details please; like panel technology, contrast ratio and minimal possible brightness level luminance.
On the other the good thing is that Lenovo has finally noticed the importance of the display component. Now please reconsider your courage to put extermly horrible crappy panels in top products like X300. I like the notebook … until powered on. Currently it is just nice decoration. Sad.
August 12th, 2008 10:20 am
[...] Read more at Lenovo Blogs [...]
August 12th, 2008 10:23 am
You should have GPS if you get the WWAN option, actually (for EVDO/CDMA; for GSM HSDPA you can get location from the network which in some areas is decent).
I’m planning to upgrade to this from my T43p (I love S-IPS so much, but don’t love the 2.26GHz single-core 32-bit CPU); I’d otherwise go with a 15″ WUXGA W500, but this panel is better, and nvidia is vastly superior to ATI (under linux). All the other stuff is nice to have, but I’d give it up for lighter weight/smaller size.
W700 is probably too big for “casual carry” laptop for mail/web/etc. at a cafe; I might also get an X300 mk 2 or just rely on blackberry or iphone for really portable use. My dream machine is a 14″ WUXGA S-IPS with great CPU/RAM, nvidia high-end video, single disk, no optical — use it as a mobile machine, but then bring it home and put it on a 30″ and external disks/network.
August 12th, 2008 11:01 am
Without telling the bit depth, i assume it is still 6 bit?
If it is, anything higher than 45% NTSC color gamut is useless, since transitions are much more apparent, when the same 6 bits has to cover the larger lut. This is was the large fault found with Samsung’s 16″ and 18.4″.
400 nits of brightness might be nice, but what are the black levels in comparison at the with the highest backlight luminance level?
I must applause the integrated screen calibration – it is an excellent idea – especially many upcoming photographers or anyone who do mild graphics editing, feel that screen calibrators is a very expensive experiment, when they only use it 2-3 times just to get a resonable quality LCD.
Also, the digitizer is a dream come true!
August 12th, 2008 11:07 am
Too bad the location of the digitizer is not configurable to either the left or right side.
I’m left handed and having it over on the right is just not an option.
Someone told me that most creative people are left handed … oh well
August 12th, 2008 11:29 am
A great Thinkpad congratulations to Lenovo! dose the W700 have Thinklight?
August 12th, 2008 11:56 am
Now honestly, this thing is about the size of my desk and still you didn’t choose a better place for audio jacks but the front? That’s somewhat disappointing.
August 12th, 2008 1:04 pm
NBR has just released a news http://www.notebookreview.com/.....ewsID=4554 about more nVidia defective hardware. It states that ThinkPad W700 might be possibly affected as well. Will Lenovo take an action to resolve it ? I’d rather see ATI-only ThinkPads.
As for the display I guess we are being cheated with TN technology again. If so, that means no real improvement at all. Wider gamut with 6 bit (marketed as 8 bit with dithering, of course, lol) display has no real use. It is similator to, lets say, using a 10000$ high-end audio system for playing 32kbps MP3 files. I might be (I’d really like to be !) wrong with the TN but I don’t believe in miracles unless Lenovo provides detailed technical information.
August 12th, 2008 2:39 pm
It’s very nice looking, but *wow* that’s a high price. One of the things I liked about the p-series was the reasonable price. (You could get a nice T61p for $1100 through EPP) Hopefully the costs of some of those high quality components you’re using will come down eventually.
August 12th, 2008 2:40 pm
I got to spend some time with the W700 and put together some video demos.
Congrats on a feature-packed notebook!
http://www.notebooks.com/2008/.....et-videos/
August 12th, 2008 2:47 pm
I’d like to see that screen sold as a standlone LCD w/o computer attached. I like the resolution/gamut, but don’t always have the space for a 22″ display.
For a laptop, I’d prefer a 13″-14″ version that can be used while traveling. If you can keep all those new features (wacom, dual hard drives, quadro, etc), that’ll be nice are nice, but as long as it has a high resolution, high gamut display that can be calibrated accurately, I’ll buy one.
August 12th, 2008 3:05 pm
This is a wasted effort without an IPS display. Viewing angle is at least as important as the wider gamut, especially in the adverse viewing environments this “luggable” notebook will likely be used in.
August 12th, 2008 3:13 pm
I’m not sure if the 72% color gamut on the W700 is anything to write home when you compare it to the competition. The recently announced workstation-class notebooks from Dell (Precision M6400) and HP (Elitebook 8730w) both provide an option of 17″ displays with 100% color gamut. Even the new 13.1″ Sony Vaio Z series boasts a 100% color gamut. I think it would have been more ground-breaking if Lenovo offered an IPS panel or even a PVA type panel.
The WACOM digitizer was a nice touch. I would say that is the most innovative feature of the W700.
August 12th, 2008 5:25 pm
VERY GOOD LENOVO!
You are doing the right thing here. I am very curious about the display and how it compares to S-IPS Flexview. That is the clincher. I bought an old ThinkPad off eBay just to get the screen. If the screen on this is good I will get one.
August 12th, 2008 5:45 pm
@ rock:
To be clear, there’s a difference between 100% of NTSC and 100% of aRGB. My understanding is HP and Sony boast 100% of NTSC, which is a slightly narrower gamut than aRGB.
Ultra high-end Eizo and NEC displays are roughly 98-99% aRGB. I’m welcome to be corrected, but my opinion is that it’s the marketing arm of the company talking when you hear things measured in terms of NTSC gamut (sounds great when you can claim 100% of anything). Unless you’re talking about video editing, my best understanding is most photo and digital professionals speak in terms of aRGB and sRGB.
August 12th, 2008 6:28 pm
rock – Interesting points there.
Just as Devil’s Advocate (not that I’m biased or anything…), but the M6400 is a “concept” notebook.
Also I looked up the Elitebook 8730w out of curiosity and while they co-announced a 102% color gamut standalone LCD display in their press release, the 17″ LCD on the notebook was not noted as having a 100% gamut. Could you leave a link to where you read that, you’ve got me curious now
“…the new HP EliteBook 8730w is the only mobile workstation on the market to offer a 17-inch diagonal HP DreamColor Display, which offers over 16 million colors, a significant improvement to the 260,000 available colors on traditional notebook PCs.”
August 12th, 2008 7:06 pm
I have decided to rob a bank so i can get this laptop, in case i get caught i will plead i am clinically insane caused by the insatiable desire to get this W700 laptop.
August 12th, 2008 7:22 pm
I guess the DreamColor buzzword is cheap trick only. There are no real 8 bit TN panels. The question is how many colors from the 16 million palette you can actually display on the panel at once
Now imagine an effort had been made to make a TN panel with real 8 bit color depth. Does the price justify the result ? Even cheapest S-PVA, A-MVA or S-IPS panel would be definitely thousand times better than a TN one for sure. I guess there must be a “Secret TN lcd panel technology lobby” advocating for its use over and over when the technology is far behind.
The color gamut is not the only parameter in terms of color quality. You also need good uniformity which is unable to reach with TN technology due the limited viewing angles. Typically a single color is not uniform on the display surface even from direct viewing angle. That’s why the TN technology is not useable for high-end monitors. Another important parameter is backlight uniformity.
I’ll speculate the price of the lcd panel in W700 but I bet it won’t be more than 15% of the end price. Would be a problem to deliver real display of decent quality for lets say a double price ?
Again, could you please reveal what technology is the panel in W700 ? Detailed reviews will tell us anyway
August 12th, 2008 8:29 pm
[...] Lenovo Blog with more information on W700 : Lenovo W700 info [...]
August 12th, 2008 10:59 pm
OMG. this is a beast, a beast of ThinkPad!
what a Beast that you have unleashed Lenovo!
Congratulations and keep a good job Lenovo and i am sure that this W700 will silent all the parties that do not believe in lenovo capabilities to produce great laptop.
again, Congrats!
August 12th, 2008 11:17 pm
I wonder how hot when it is running intensive photoshop ie RAW converting etc
and how long the battery will last under this kind of use
Would have been great if an actual photographer did the review
( me, me , me )
August 12th, 2008 11:27 pm
[Quote]I know many out there consider Apple to be the standard for photo work, but I think our company has shot a significant salvo across the proverbial Macintosh bow that challenges that dominance.[/Quote]
I know that IBM/Lenovo laptops are great. But comparing them with Apple MBP is little bit difficult.
With IBM/Lenovo, we always get great Hardware, but with MBP it is OK Hardware + Great Software.
August 13th, 2008 4:48 am
Well Sandy, before we never had a real alternative to Macbook Pro 17 inch HD, now we do with the W700. Software wise, i think Apple should just release their OS to the wider computing public, but most likely not.
August 13th, 2008 10:05 am
A few responses to the comments…
Roger Binns — Our team considered a touch screen, but then abandoned the idea after they got massive amounts of feedback from designers and photographers that fingerprints on the screen was the last thing they wanted.
Multiple — I hear your question loud and clear on what technology the panel uses. I am trying to find out for sure, but I can tell you without a doubt that it is not IPS. That said, it makes my T61 panel look like trash side by side and it isn’t just because of the added brightness.
Yes it is still a 6 bit panel. As far as the 10 bit panels go though that were announced by others, since Windows is plumbed internally top to bottom with 8 bits, though the graphics hardware can lie to it, I’m not sure that a 10 bit panel offers much. Microsoft is rumored to be working on the 8 bit limitation for the next generation of Windows.
And yes, the RGBLCD panels do look quite nice. Our team originally rejected them as they come from a single supplier, but the product manager told me he was going to reevaluate that decision.
Though it is a massive machine, we still had our usual problems of where to fit all of the ports in. Sadly, audio up front had to happen again.
Puppy – there is no way that the W700 is going to be affected by the nVIDIA issue — for two reasons. One, we manage heat well throughout our ThinkPad lineup. It’s what I’ve been touting on this blog for quite some time. Two, this product was announced after the nVIDIA issue came to light. We would have designed any potential shortcomings out.
Ted — you can still get a W500 — the follow on to the T61p at lower prices than the W700 is starting at. (For the grammar police, yes, I know.)
Tommy Leong — you have no idea how much you just insulted me. If you want me to do some more tests like RAW conversion, just ask. As far as heat goes, a Core 2 or 4 core processor is going to make X amount of heat no matter whose system it is in. The same goes for a graphics subsystem. OUr job (and the engineers did it well) was to make sure that all of that heat goes out of the vents on the sides of the notebooks — not on the bottom cover or through the keyboard/palmrest.
Wjli2 — we asked Apple to license the Mac OS to us at one point. They said no.
August 13th, 2008 10:36 am
Hi Tim,
If the Dell Precision M6400 is still a “concept” it doesn’t seem far from production. I found an article that seems to suggest that the displays will be using an RGB LED rather than the conventional “white” LED: [url=http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2327896,00.asp]Dell Precision Workstations Will Wow Professionals[/url]. This would be ground breaking considering RGB LED provide a much larger color gamut (even beyond the NTSC standard) and are only found in extremely high cost, professional LCD monitors.
I’m sorry, but I couldn’t didn’t find an article that stated the HP Elitebook 8730w’s color gamut explicitly. I may be mistaken. I felt a wider color gamut was implicit from HP’s press release “HP Brings DreamColor Accuracy to Mobile Power Users” that you quoted. Since HP’s DreamColor line of monitors offer a wider color gamut (around 100% NTSC) and the press release claims that the 8730w will offer the DreamColor technology, I figured its display would have 100% NTSC color gamut as well. I can’t seem to configure the 8730w on HP’s website today, but when I tried it yesterday, selecting the DreamColor display over the standard display would cost $400. That is the biggest price jump I’ve seen for upgrading a notebook’s display. I would hope that is because LCD is of exceptional quality (at least 8-bits per channel, wide color gamut, high-contrast, wide-viewing angles, etc).
August 13th, 2008 10:37 am
Popular science has already released an article about this, the “Death Star” of laptops
http://www.popsci.com/gear-%25.....ar-laptops
August 13th, 2008 10:38 am
Hi Tim,
If the Dell Precision M6400 is still a “concept” it doesn’t seem far from production. I found an article that seems to suggest that the displays will be using an RGB LED rather than the conventional “white” LED: “Dell Precision Workstations Will Wow Professionals” @ pcmag.com. This would be ground breaking considering RGB LED provide a much larger color gamut (even beyond the NTSC standard) and are only found in extremely high cost, professional LCD monitors.
I’m sorry, but I couldn’t didn’t find an article that stated the HP Elitebook 8730w’s color gamut explicitly. I may be mistaken. I felt a wider color gamut was implicit from HP’s press release “HP Brings DreamColor Accuracy to Mobile Power Users” that you quoted. Since HP’s DreamColor line of monitors offer a wider color gamut (around 100% NTSC) and the press release claims that the 8730w will offer the DreamColor technology, I figured its display would have 100% NTSC color gamut as well. I can’t seem to configure the 8730w on HP’s website today, but when I tried it yesterday, selecting the DreamColor display over the standard display would cost $400. That is the biggest price jump I’ve seen for upgrading a notebook’s display. I would hope that is because LCD is of exceptional quality (at least 8-bits per channel, wide color gamut, high-contrast, wide-viewing angles, etc).
August 13th, 2008 11:16 am
I’m agree with sandy, my dream is a lenovo comuter running Mac OS X! I own both a thinkpad T30, a bit old but in perfect condition, and a MacBook Pro 17 which need maintenance because of a firewire port out of order, in my knowledge using both, and some other Macs, i prefer the lenovo formerly ibm hardware, is outstanding, with or without ips, of course, i prefer the ips way, but, in the other hand, windows vista is an awful os, i don’t recommend it to no one, apple have made a great job with their os, the leopard is as outstanding as a lenovo, even i don’t want to get back to my lenovo due to the windows part of it. my dream is a lenovo loaded with mac os x, please apple give out your os, or pleas lenovo, give out some drivers, please help us the users!,
August 13th, 2008 11:47 am
Matt,
this is one fine piece of engineering!
Good to see that Thinkpads are on the leading edge of innovation again.
Now… how can I buy a palmrest for a T6x or T400/500 series including this Wacom tablet?
[I tried to use the Synaptics touchpad a while ago, but that pad is only sensitive to fingers, not pens.]
I highly recommend you to consider putting the Wacom (in this case the tiny Wacom Bamboo) on other series as well, at least as an optional feature. Millions of photoshop and MS Office Onenote users will give you their arm and a leg to get one of these notebooks, I swear!!
August 13th, 2008 12:29 pm
For those of you who were wondering, the W700 has two ThinkLight LED’s in order to properly illuminate the keyboard.
August 13th, 2008 2:06 pm
Matt,
thanks for the response. The 6 bit panel indicates TN techonolgy at 99%. That’s sad because even “better” TN panel still have all the problems of the technology. As for 10 bit and more displays. There is no need to have more than 8 bit color depth in the operating system to utilize them. It is matter of lookup table to select the most proper color combinations based on monitor settings. Currently there are 12 or 14 bit panels in high-end LCD monitors. Still, the panel technology is the most important parameter regardless display quality. If not IPS, try to pick S-PVA from Samsung, they are cheaper
I’d like to hear that T61 panel looks like a trash
Yes, and the X300 would have been even worse. Do we have any hope to get decent display in smaller models than 17″ ones ?
rock: If these Dreamcolor displays are based on TN technology no superlative description can help it. If you had a chance to compare them side-by-side with former ThinkPad IPS panels I’m sure they would look just bad. Especially the viewing angles are tricky with TN technology. They might look better from lets say 140 degrees than 110 degress. No other lcd technology makes the color inversion when viewing angles are getting closer 180 degress. Also don’t forget that a dead pixel is turned on in black background on TN while it is just “off” on other lcd technologies. I can’t find any advantage of TN except price.
August 13th, 2008 2:09 pm
Oops, small edit needed: “Still, the panel technology is the most important parameter regardING display quality”.
August 13th, 2008 3:15 pm
While this model is definitively nothing I’m interested in, I think it is impressive addition to the line. I appreciate how even with a bunch of extra features there are already some who’d like even more additions (and here I’m not thinking about people who want IPS/PVA/MVA screen options or different positions for the audio jacks)…
I particularly like the fact that this model includes numerical keyboard.
August 13th, 2008 4:00 pm
Matt,
Thank you very much for your reply, it is highly appreciated. I think i understand the decision of a 6 bit LUT in this case.
Another thing, i’m not sure who to really ask, or if anyone knows, or where. I’m using the 13n7194 panel, and am extremely happy about it’s performance. I was told that it requires a “control signal” from the system (T60p) to operate in “sRGB mode”. Knowing that this part was supplied in ultra-low quantities, and not available most places – was this control signal implemented on the T60p series, or was this abandoned?
For anyone’s information – HP might be pulling our legs heavily. Their press sheet mentions more than 16 million colors. In other words that does equal to 6 bit + dithering algorithm. If they meant to say 8 bits, knowing HPs “not telling anything at all manuals” well, they would have said 16.7M.
Puppy,
A lot of 17″ WS TN LCDs for laptops are actually of a whole other class than 14″, 12″ TN panels. They often have a different kind of polarizer, so that viewing angles will be better, and easier to get more evenly lit (read: less expensive to get “right”) – there are two backlights installed in most.
While i agree that IPS would produce truer colors, the TN is better than those TNs found in smaller laptops.
August 13th, 2008 4:10 pm
How do a order the left hand version??
3/4 of artist in the studio I support are left handed like most of are community.
Want to order 24 left hand version today.
August 13th, 2008 4:13 pm
Matt: I think not offering the RGB LED backlit panel on the W700 would be a major mistake. I assume that the sole-source supplier of RGB LED panels would be Chi Mei since they seem to be the only one offering them. Based on the spec sheet for the HP Elitebook 8730w, it looks like there will be an RGB LED option. It looks like Dell will have RGB LED backlit panel options for both its 15″ and 17″ Precision models (M4400 and M6400 respectively). I assume all of these panels will be using 8-bit technology in order to display the claimed 16.7 million colors. The 6-bit panel that the W700 will be using is quite a turn off. It may cover 72% of aRGB color gamut but it’ll only have 262K color samplings from it rather than the 16.7 million you would get with an 8-bit panel.
This is all very exciting to me. Although I have been hoping for better quality notebook LCD panels for many years (especially with the demise of IPS panels for notebooks) I wasn’t expecting this recent trend for high color gamut screens. RGB LED backlit panels are definitely the future – at least for the near term. It’ll be something when OLED displays technology reaches notebooks – talk about incredible image quality, not to mention their unsurpassed energy efficiency.
August 13th, 2008 5:11 pm
There’s trackpoint, why are you wasting space with the ultranav? Could have been used for a larger wacom.
I’m not keen on the number pad OR the 17″.
No mention of Ultrabay, why? It almost makes me think the chassis is not thinkpad dedicated and is just a hardened-up copy of the MANY chinese 17″+numpad laptops out there. Say it ain’t so, Lenovo, say it ain’t so.
Although, I’d love to see a panel with similar specs and calibration features on a 14/15″ T-style machine!
August 13th, 2008 6:35 pm
soup – it should be obvious that this is all ThinkPad and not from an ODM, nobody offers anything similar.
if you didn’t have the 17″ then you wouldn’t have enough space for the digitiser and if your going to have 17″ then you may as well have the number pad rather than just wasted space.
August 13th, 2008 7:25 pm
There’s an Ultrabay, and yes it will support a 3rd drive. It’s our new SATA based Ultrabay rather than the old PATA Ultrabay.
This is a ThinkPad through and through.
August 14th, 2008 2:49 am
Think how much faster this would be with Windows XP 64bit instead of the sluggish Vista junk!
Sadly, as a system builder I realize that Microsoft no longer allows Lenovo to sell computers with Windows XP as of July 2008.
Still if Lenovo would make all of the drivers available for Win XP64 bit, we could, downgrade Vista Business, or Vista Ultimate, or simply install Win XP 64bit in any case and have a machine that works fast and in a familiar way. None of the special Vista features are worth 2 cents according to my experience or of the careful reviews that have examined them closely.
Dan
August 14th, 2008 3:38 am
I am a professional photographer and technical editor for various computer and photography magazines in Greece. Like a lot of people I have some ideas on what a photographers laptop should be like. Personally I think most photographers need a portable computer not so much to edit, but to transfer/store and select/grade while on the go. Serious editing will/shall be left for the controlled/calibrated desktops. So the W700 may be just too much for the working pro (news/wedding/event photographer).
How about these suggestions for version 2:
1. An LCD that when opened reveals three pieces as they flip open (a main screen and two smaller units on either side)
2. Quality of screen should be as high as possible (large colour gamut and large viewing angles)
3. Three HDD (normal sized – not 3.5”) as standard without sacrificing the optical drive. One fast (7200rpm or 10.000rpm) for the operating system, one for personal folders (photos, documents etc) and the last one either as raid or swap file usage.
4. A fast quad CPU and 4GB as standard
5. An ATI graphics card (or Matrox if they are willing to make one for you)
6. A 64-bit operating system (Preferably OS X or Win XP)
Anything else should just be an optional extra, so keep it simple and as light as possible. The 3-piece screen would allow more real estate in a smaller package. So you can pretty much build a fat (to allow for screens and more HDD space) 12”, 15” (or even 17” for the brave) laptop that would offer great screen real estate and since it will be pretty much bare, the base model can be offered at a reasonable price!
A 15” model will probably end up being heavy, but I think it won’t be much heavier than current 17 models and it will offer more where it counts.
Just my 2cents worth
August 14th, 2008 7:39 am
Troels,
that’s what I think as well. HP’s “DreamWhatever” is just marketing fluff. They got CCFL backlight replaced with RGB LED which improves color gamut parameter while the rest of them remains poor because it is limitation of the TN technology. Yes, some of 17″ notebook panels are better by using different kind of polarizer and pixels shape (the technology is sometimes called B-TN, developed by Samsung). Viewing angles are improved to some extent but still remains “non-linear”.
Charging extra 400$ for a “better” TN panel (well, I might be wrong because it might be an old generation of MVA or PVA technology which was 6 bit only but I don’t believe it) what HP does makes me laugh
Last time I checked the price of spare IDTech 15″ SXGA+ IPS panel directly from IBM/Lenovo for my R51 it was 460 EUR. It is more than four years old part. Prices of consumer S-IPS panels developed by LG.Philips are going down with every year.
All these attempts to improve TN technology sounds just ridiculous while we already have better ones. It is like to put an extreme effort to improve punch tape reader speed while we already have SSDs
Sorry, I’ll pay for true technology-up-to-date display only.
August 14th, 2008 10:43 am
Thank you “Matt Kohut” for replying to us here. Your comments and interest in our needs is welcome and apparent. Since Lenovo has stated that the W700 is for photographers I am hoping that the non-IPS display is going to be workable, ie truly better than what we have now otherwise I would feel sorta lied to you know what I mean?
I shoot on location with an IBM laptop currently. One of the old ones with S-IPS. It is not a perfect implementation of S-IPS of course but it gets me very close. I only use it to see the highlight and shadow detail. Major color work is done with my S-IPS display at the office.
Digital techs who assist from time to time on photo shoots bring their own desktops along with large LCD panels. This laptop could be for them if the screen is good enough. With the included color calibrator in the W700 I feel something new must have been implemented.
But just to make something clear with Lenovo. With current TN technology you can not properly discern highlight and shadow. If a photographer spend $3,000 on a laptop that the Lenovo marketing department said they could use (and they never said this to photographers before) and it turns out to not be true I feel for the wrath Lenovo is going to take on the public forums.
To end this on a good note. Thank you for Lenovo for considering this marketing segment! I will get this laptop if it is truly workable.
August 14th, 2008 2:02 pm
@Matt Kohut, well i guess with Apple, they never heard the phrase ’sharing is caring’. One of the biggest advantage Apple has over other computer manufacturers is the Apple OS, which it tries to flaunt to the wider publics through its ‘the Hip Apple versus the dull Microsoft based Computers’ ad campaigns numerous times (it was funny the first time, but loses originality when it tries too hard with the later series). I guess Apple don’t want to erode its market share and market advantage by giving away its OS, after all each Apple computer contains around 30% profit margin for Apple.
August 14th, 2008 2:25 pm
Another detail that I don’t think has been listed anywhere yet — the WACOM digitizer we use has 512 levels of pressure sensitivity.
I’ll continue to post more details as I learn them.
August 14th, 2008 4:07 pm
My T60 screen is a very comfortable screen which is a 1400X1050 15″ wide viewing angle and high density Flexview display…
I’m not sure if new screens in Thinkpads are really comfortable than my Flexview 15″…Somebody can explain the difference between the new Lenovo screens (led), etc, and my excellent Flexview screen ??
Tkx
August 14th, 2008 4:48 pm
Flexiview or IPS screen use different LCD technology as compared to the TN screen that Lenovo use today, just wiki it and have a read. The benefit of IPS is wider viewing angle, more contrast and brightness, more colour accuracy as compared to TN, but also chew through more battery power.
August 14th, 2008 5:14 pm
some things i like a lot:
- dual harddrive. Yep! a fast SSD for the OS, a large HDD for data.
- better display. I agree that former displays like the non-flexview on my T60p are of no fun to look at.
- quad core. Real parallel computing on my notebook!
things i do not understand:
- why the heck does the display bezel still grow and grow? The one of the T60 is suboptimal, the one of the X300 ugly, the X200 ridiculous and this one? Shall we use it for post-its? What do you hide there? Do not say, you needed a larger laptop-body, if you already took a 17″ screen…
- why are the good points not present in the W500? For running Linux a small 8 or even 4GB SSD as a second device would be sufficient.
As i carry my notebook home daily on the bike, this one is too heavy for me, but i would appreciate some of the technology drip down to ligther versions. When already dreaming: What about a W400 with a 3:4 SXGA+ (or higher) display comparable to flex-view, nvidia graphics, an additional (small) SSD, four cores, a digitizer pad (if its proven to resist permanent treatment by palms and sweat), plus the vanishing bezel and silence of the T41p. If this all comes at a weight of the T22, its mine!
August 15th, 2008 3:25 am
Hecke, you get no argument from me that the bezels are super ugly but if thats what it takes to get strong hinges and good reception then its worth it – the T41 had the need for 3 antennas (2x wifi, 1 x BT), the new systems sometimes have the need for 6 antennas and have a much stronger construction (due to stengthened hinges and the rollcages so the space for that has to come from somewhere, as it should be with a ThinkPad Form<Function.
August 15th, 2008 6:17 am
The only wireless system I really need is mobile Internet (3G/EDGE). I would rather have non-ugly bezel option than tons of fancy wireless stuff I don’t have a real use for.
Especially X200 suffers from this problem because the size would be much more friendly without the extremly thick display bezel. Please consider an X200tbs model – Thin Bezel and Small
August 15th, 2008 2:05 pm
I think the big bezel not only makes it stronger and also easier for quality control. There is also less likely hood of component failure related to the top cover + screens. This is like the trend that many manufacturers like to use huge B-pillars in the cars, good for roll over safety due to the increased strength, but really affects the driver’s visibility.
August 15th, 2008 2:20 pm
I really, really hope the build quality is up to par with this machine. I’ve never seen a 17″ machine that was what I’d consider well constructed. They all seem to be ABS heavy flextastic junkpiles since they’re designed to never be moved.
So I’m reserving judgement on this one until I can see (and tear down) one first hand. Maybe once the HMM is released I’ll have a better idea of how its constructed.
As far as overall looks go, I have to agree with the other posters about the chunkiness of the LCD bezels in the current generation of Thinkpads. Whats the explanation for it? I’m guessing it may have something to do with the design of the LCD roll cage.
August 15th, 2008 7:01 pm
Matt,
The W700 is a wonderful effort, and where it might fall short at least it demonstrates that Lenovo is aware of how important imaging and design capabilities are to portable computing. The wacom option and color calibration further demonstrate that the Thinkpad is the standard of innovation on the Windows platform. CF card option, it’s about time, thanks…
“we asked Apple to license the Mac OS to us at one point. They said no.”
Well the next step would be to ask Adobe to release Linux versions of their software. Autodesk has, so let’s stop limiting ourselves to Microsoft and Apple. That hopefully would create enough momentum to get some of the rest of the CGI software, not to mention audio development tools developers to release Linux versions too. By the way thanks for sharing that very interesting tid bit. Apple and Microsoft seem to forget that we do not need Windows or OSX, it is the applications and our Thinkpads that we need and use, and I for one would be just as happy running them under Linux.
rock says:
“I think not offering the RGB LED backlit panel on the W700 would be a major mistake. I assume that the sole-source supplier of RGB LED panels would be Chi Mei”
I agree, and it is not only Dell and HP that will offer this screen, I expect it will also be Apple, or that Apple will be offering something as good or better. For those of us for whom this product is targeted, we will purchase the laptop with the best screen performance. Also for field use I prefer a 15.4 inch system. Unfortunately no one seems to be offering this screen in their 15.4 inch models. The color calibration should be offered in the W500 too if design permits.
As has been mentioned viewing angles and uniform accuracy across the screen is what is needed for this to be a truly useful tool. I hope Lenovo will lead the way in providing this kind of screen quality, as well as providing complete and accurate information so that there are no misunderstandings about the true capabilities of these systems and their components.
August 18th, 2008 5:05 pm
Sounds promising, even it’s common usage that Notebook with better 17″ TFT-Panels that they do offer enhanced viewing capabilities, since the used panels do mostly stem from desktop monitor lines. The panel will then hopefully be a better VA or even IPS based panel.
August 18th, 2008 6:10 pm
vkyr,
I can guarantee you that no 17″, or desktop LCD panels are used in notebooks – since:
- Thickness: At least double the thickness for desktop panels
- Power consumption: Expect desktop LCDs to shoot through the roof compared to laptop LCDs, especially 8 bit LCDs, and quad backlit types which is not uncommon.
- Weight: The weight is at least the double of notebook panels – which puts a very undesired contraint on the laptop
— stronger hinges are needed
— heavier base is needed
- This is a ‘maybe’ only: Not sure that they comply with SPWG class B at all.
But who even makes 17″ wide desktop monitors? I’ve never heard of any, but i think there could be a small market for it.
August 19th, 2008 5:33 am
Troels,
I remember for example that Acer in the past used 17″ standard Desktop Panels in some of their weighty and big 17″ notebooks (weight ~6-7 Kg). Later a bunch of companies used even bigger panels in portable less, bigger 19″ notebooks etc. Some time ago there haven’t been any big specific notebook panels at all and thus dektop panel technology was used in such big monster notebooks.
August 19th, 2008 12:50 pm
It seems we are losing another ThinkPad component after displays – the keyboard. First look reviews of T400 and T500 on NBR have revealed (serious ?) problem with “new” keyboards. It flexes too much comparing the old ones because of design change (there is a picture in the T500 review). What’s the W700 keyboard design ?
Some people are now trying to order good old spare T60 keyboard as fast as possible to replace this “crap”. Will Lenovo replace them upon request with the good old ones ? Do Lenovo need to lost the reputation of the best notebook keyboards ? Weren’t the displays enough ?
August 19th, 2008 2:25 pm
[...] http://lenovoblogs.com/insidethebox/?p=153 [...]
August 19th, 2008 4:14 pm
Yes, in that previews it looks like the new T-series keyboard back-plate changes do suffer for some flexing and thus aren’t as robust as the older T-series model keyboard back-plates.
No need to say that I hate such weight/cost savings, if they make important notebook parts, like the famous ThinkPad keyboards, weaker at all. – Generally I would prefer to carry around slightly more weight around for an overall sturdy notebook.
August 20th, 2008 12:02 am
hopefully the new Txxx series of keyboard is interchangeable with the older T6x series of keyboards.
August 23rd, 2008 3:11 am
This could potentially replace my T61p + desktop combination. I currently use my Thinkpad at my “day job” and use my home desktop if I need color accuracy (occasional photography) or four cores (occasional raytracing). Really dig the wacom and the full size keyboard; right now I lug a 6×8 intuos and an external keyboard with me. I’ll seriously consider one of these during my next upgrade cycle; outright price appears steep, but it’ll be a replacement for a lot of expensive gear, and it will fit in a much smaller space. Hats-off to building the “mothership” of Thinkpads; it’ll serve its niche favorably.
August 26th, 2008 12:17 am
It looks to me like of the new machines can be ordered with more than 3gb of ram. Can they be configured with 4gb by the end user? I know that 2gb ddr3 modules exist, so I have to -hope- 4gb modules are on their way. 4gb ddr2 modules are available right now, so the T61 (and presumably X61) can be set up with 8gb of ram, making the newer units a step backwards at least on that axis.
August 30th, 2008 9:51 pm
Paul, yes the can be configured to 4GB by the end user. Don’t forget that you’ll need a 64 big OS in order to take advantage of that though.
Memory isn’t just how big of a module you can buy — oftentimes it is limited by the chipset. I think, but don’t know for sure as I can’t find the specs right now, that the Santa Rosa chipset will only support up to 4GB max memory.
I’m sure someone will correct me if I’m wrong.
August 31st, 2008 2:41 pm
A couple years ago, I bought laptop thinking “Finally, I have a computer I can take it back-and-forth home instead of CDRWs, USBs…”.
Now, I’m convinced I will buy one W700 this year and I’m starting thinking about a deliberately more portable companion to it.
Thus, my question is: If Lenovo dares to expand the ThinkPad line towards 17” behemoths, it also should does it in an opposite direction, offering something like X100, doesn’t it?
August 31st, 2008 5:43 pm
Matt, thanks, yes I use 64 bit Linux. Another possibility would be to run 32 bit Linux with PAE (gives you 4gb max per process, but you can have multiple processses that size), or multiple 32 bit OS’s under virtualization. I know for a fact that several people are using 8gb in T61’s right now and I’m in an internal struggle with myself right now to not buy an upgrade (I really want the extra ram, but I’m better off waiting for the price to come down some more, since a single 4gb module right now costs almost 3x what two 2gb modules cost).
I’m remembering back over Thinkpads I’ve had (755cx, 770, A20p, X40, and T61 are the main ones), and if I count the X40 as a member of the T40-43 family, it seems to me that every generation has increased the max ram capacity by 4x or so (40MB->160MB->512MB->2GB->8GB). So, it seems to me that this recently introduced family is sort of a minor upgrade and not a new generation. Yes, those memory limitations are due to the chip sets. The availability of a quad core cpu in the W700 is interesting but I hope the follow-on model will have more ram slots. I guess the next generational leap will have the Larrabee GPU and 32GB of ram, and I hope it will support 4 megapixel external displays, maybe even more than one of them.
I guess DDR3 ram is still pretty new and there will be 4gb modules soon, so the current situation where the new Thinkpads have smaller total capacity than the old models is temporary. Maybe there will even be 8gb modules some day.
September 3rd, 2008 4:55 pm
While I am really excited about the built in color calibrator and the computer in general, as someone who was a sports photographer and will one day return to it, there are a few things that keep me doing what I can to keep my T60 going:
4:3 is much more useful than widescreen to sports photographers
17″ is just too big. Sports photographers travel a lot and not all of us are willing to lug 17 inches
IPS (I had to say it)
September 4th, 2008 10:11 pm
Like anything, we all have unique needs, but would appreciate you keeping a cutting edge mobile workstation at the higher end. Can always have a model one step down to limit size and features; let’s say we call it a W500. As a user of Cad (large physical size projects / civil design and Arch), GIS, and business uses such as photo and video for marketing, we appreciate your efforts to produce the w700 – as a higher end mobile “workstation”. Even our most fanatic geeks are starting to demand mobility.
In addition to a fabulous machine, a few examples where Lenovo assists (us) with reducing total costs vs. HP and Dell: 1) vs. HP’s DDR2, you added DDR3, which not only runs cooler, but will make it easier to find/ upgrade over time as DDR2 becomes more scarce, prices remain high, and will lack newer features; 2) Different than HP and Dell the two hard drives (independent from using up multi or DVD bay) for many of us – is not only great for capacity, but also ability to allows us to use presently small and expensive SSD for speed and reliability and a 2nd drive for capacity. 3) Although the Wacom OPTION is not everyone’s cup of tea; like most professionals we have separate mouse(s), keyboard, and tablets for heavy use, but when not at our desk or making a small revisions, it will be convenient to have all 3-4 alternatives.
Please take wish list as a vote, not as arrogant demand. Concerns / wish list: 1) I will admit you offer a great LCD, but why could the W700 not be designed to facilitate a better screen such as HP. Could have been an option should your one supplier not die or fail to deliver. Our geeks would prefer, but this is less important to us, since we have an alternative on our desks prior to sending out for production. 2) Your logic to not have a touch screen also appears weak, given that a) such normally uses a stylus for this type of use, b) is only an alternative input device, and c) Microsoft’s next operating system will probably use or require for best use. 3) An eSATA connection on mobile unit is important since many use external (2.5” mobile) drives when we travel, and we will need to change the drive’s case to a USB case for travel. Especially poor decision with USB 3 coming soon and eSATA providing an option. 4) We would all love to move to 64 bit; however, even AutoDesk and Microsoft admit such is not yet here. Why is Vista Ultimate (with bitLocker and EFS) only offered in 64 bit, when even Microsoft provides both. I wanted to be polite and will not ask if Lenovo’s management actually tried to use 64 bit in a complex work environment vs. as an enthusiast.
Conclusion: Lenovo offers the best true mobile workstation alternative on the market. Please, please continue your efforts in the mobile workstation area and continue to offer at least one larger cutting edge mobile workstation. When needing to do intense workstation design tasks, I can deal with the weight/size. Would be great if I could put in my pocket, but for now I am buying a workstation and can pack a smaller unit, or Ultra with mini projector for different uses / purposes.
Although never a Lenovo fan, I am seriously getting to appreciate what your firm can deliver.
September 21st, 2008 11:00 pm
As a user that only wants one laptop (too much trouble syncing everything) and is drooling over the W700 I’d like to request a special Inside the Box review on using the W700 on the road.
We all know its not really meant for a roadwarrior, but I’d love to have one laptop with such a big, bright screen (to use on my boat), speed and integrated Wacom tablet. (I use a T60P today, it is nice but getting a bit old).
So, how about a special where you try living with just the W700 on the road for a couple weeks?
-Alex
October 4th, 2008 4:00 am
NBR has just posted a W700 review. As I thought the “high quality display” was a bad joke. Check the pictures http://www.notebookreview.com/.....ewsID=4632 and compare them with http://www.notebookreview.com/.....ewsID=2864 We got tricked again.
November 14th, 2008 10:12 pm
Wow. Looking at those pictures of the W700 screen, I just have to laugh. My W500 with what should be a dimmer, lower quality screen has less color shift than that at horizontal angles. Vertical angles, however, are about the same. Either way, they (at least on my W500) have mostly solved the TN panel color inversion problem. It shifts a little (unlike the S-IPS panel in my school provided HP TC4400 tablet), but is still pretty good, and uniform from a direct angle.
November 2nd, 2009 5:06 pm
I love it! Bought the fully loaded version with the extra display (Nice for sticking all of the widgets and control panel tools), as much ram as it’d hold (8gig + 2 for the dual disks) and raid 1 (makes writing to disk faster and displaying faster too).
There’s only one thing “bad” about it and it’s the same bad thing about any Thinkpad with a fingerprint reader: IBM No longer provides a similar external fingerprint reader that uses the same drivers. What does this mean? If you use this as your desktop at home with large external displays, an external wacom digitizer, etc, you can’t use the fingerprint reader. I use my system for everything. Don’t need a second one, so the thinkvantage security sw keeps asking and I keep clicking “fingerprint reader not available”.
Other than that, there’s nothing bad to say. It dwarfs my T42P and, when someone says “look at my new laptop”, I can recite Croc Dundee’s “That’s not a laptop, THIS is a laptop”. Heh.