Technology Brief – DisplayPort
If you are the proud owner of a ThinkPad R500, T500 or an X200 with a media slice, you will have no doubt noticed a new port on your system. It looks like a USB port, but if you tried to plug a USB device into it, you found out that it would not fit. That port is a DisplayPort, and it is a next generation video interface for notebooks and desktops.
Anyone who knows PCs knows the venerable VGA port. It’s usually colored blue, and is sort of “D” shaped. You use it to connect an external display or projector to your laptop or desktop. Inevitably, you always try to insert the video cable upside down and have to kink a very thick and awkward cord in order to fit it correctly into the socket. Then and only then, you get to deal with two fixed screws molded into the VGA cord in order to lock it into place. While these usually twist easily into place, woe to that person who has tried to unscrew them after some overzealous nut has cranked them down like life support equipment on the space shuttle. Assuming you don’t need a torque wrench to get them unstuck from your video card, you’re practically guaranteed to remove the metal screw holders from the back of that video card. Then it’s up to you to decide what to do next as you hold these two impossibly small and hexagonal shaped screws in your hand. Usability wise, it’s a terrible system that should never have been approved as an industry standard.
Aside from its physical indignities, it’s an analog system in a digital world. Your video card converts its digital signals into an analog signal which is fed over the wires to the electron guns in your CRT. If you happen to be using a projector or an LCD display, the signal is converted BACK into a digital signal and then continues along its way. The signal bandwidth is limited, and therefore the resolution possibilities. It’s an outdated technology. However, considering it IS a standard, it will be with us for a long time.
The next iteration was DVI, which you may know as a rectangular white connector. This had the advantage of providing digital output for higher resolution displays with higher quality. There are several versions, including DVI-D, DVI-A, DVI-I, and dual link. I’m not going to go into those variations here except to say that DVI was definitely an improvement all around for display quality and versatility. However, one major drawback is that the DVI port is physically huge. This limited its use on laptops as it not only required extra circuitry to implement, but it also meant giving up several other ports in order to make room for it. Thus, most vendors included it only as part of external port replicators or docks.
DisplayPort is the evolution of digital video technology, and has been badly needed for a long time. It has significant cost advantages over both VGA and DVI as it requires less pins and wires for the same display resolutions. Logically it is the same as PCI Express, so it is very easy to integrate for “free” into chipsets. An easy way to think about how it works is to think of it as sending “packetized” video much like TCP/IP. This allows for some pretty cool things to happen. One, it can carry more than just video. The specification allows for audio transmission over the same cable. It has a high speed back end channel that can carry non-video data like USB data. This way displays with a built in USB hub would not need a second USB cable to enable that hub.
What is even cooler is that this packetized video technology allows for future enhancements like daisy chained monitors. Today if you want quad display support, you need four video out ports on your video card for each display you want to connect. With the next generation of DisplayPort, you could run one cable from your video card to your first display. Your first display could then directly connect to your second display which connects to your third, and so on. There is much less cable clutter this way. Plus, the spec allows cable runs up to 15 meters, and there are no screws in order to connect the DisplayPort to the system.
Now of course, backwards compatibility is very important for any standard to succeed. DisplayPort can use an adapter to convert its signal to DVI and, with the right converter, can convert to VGA signals as well. It also easily converts to HDMI. In fact, the two are so similar that many have asked, “Why are you using DisplayPort instead of HDMI on your ThinkPad notebooks?”
To put it simply, HDMI is a consumer standard whereas DisplayPort is a commercial standard. Despite some technical details which I’ll explain in just a moment, the reason they coexist is due more to plain old greed than anything else. DisplayPort is royalty free while HDMI is a paid, licensed standard. In other words, every time an HDMI port is put on a system or device, that manufacturer has to pay a few cents back to the HDMI consortium in order to be able to use that port. It very quickly adds up to real money once you’re talking about millions of systems. Thus, the DisplayPort consortium was formed. In addition to Lenovo, other members of this consortium include our rival PC companies as well as Intel and Microsoft.
Other than that, technically there are very good arguments for using DisplayPort instead of HDMI for commercial systems. As I mentioned earlier, DisplayPort is easily implementable in chipsets while HDMI requires extra logic circuits in order to make it work. Also, DisplayPort uses more wires to achieve higher resolutions while HDMI uses higher clock rates for higher resolutions. A VGA resolution display requires one DisplayPort lane or ¼ the number of wires as it would on HDMI. HD video 1920 x 1080 requires only two lanes, or ½ the number of wires as HDMI would need. Fewer wires equals less manufacturing cost and complexity.
Since DisplayPort uses packetized video, it allows for future extensions like daisy chaining. HDMI is a 1:1 connection which means that every device needs a physical connection back to the source to work. And, since an adapter can easily convert between HDMI and DisplayPort, it can coexist in a digital home theater world.
You’ll notice that we haven’t eschewed HDMI completely. Our ThinkPad SL series includes HDMI ports instead of DisplayPorts on purpose. Since our SL lineup is designed for small business and is more likely to be connected to a home theater system than a non-SL ThinkPad, the right choice was HDMI for that lineup. Though readers of this blog are just as likely to connect their ThinkPad notebooks to their HD TVs as to high end digital displays, the vast majority of ThinkPad notebooks will never be used this way. They will, however, be connected to external displays. Since PC desktops will be using DisplayPorts as well, it makes it much easier to coexist. International Data Corporation (IDC) is very bullish on DisplayPort adoption over the next few years in the commercial space. You’ll very quickly see it take the PC world by storm.
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Lenovo H320 desktop
October 21st, 2008 4:21 am
I’m glad you decided to do the right choice and set on the right (and better) technology.
Still – I’m a little disappointed that the X2xx series does not include DisplayPort on the device, because the connector is not that big and there surely would have been a place to get it out.
I of course can understand, that there is still VGA, what is good. Nice not to have to carry adapters with me when doing presentations. At least till DisplaPort is standard there, too, what shouldn’t take too long, as Intel and the PC companies are pushing it now.
[WORDPRESS HASHCASH] The poster sent us ‘0 which is not a hashcash value.
October 21st, 2008 5:13 am
Off-topic: Why is the SL-series labled ThinkPad although it actually more of an IdeaPad when thinking of it’s firmware, EC and possibly more parts? Will we see this more often in the future?
October 21st, 2008 6:11 am
Hello,
I like this new DisplayPort-Port. I would also like to have a DisplayPort on my new ThinkPad T400. Are we going to see any new Docking-Stations for this device which are equipped with this port? That would be cool!
ThinkMike
October 21st, 2008 10:21 am
Great article! Very informative! Thanks!
October 21st, 2008 11:09 am
Great article, well written and a pleasure to read.
Raharney
October 21st, 2008 11:22 am
matt – don’t forget that the W700 has displayport as well, both on the chassis and its port replicator.
October 21st, 2008 12:46 pm
I thought it was nice that the Lenovo 3000 series got merged into the ThinkPad line. IdeaPads and ThinkPads have different service centers in many parts of Asia. I’ve sent clients to Lenovo several times only to find out that they have a Lenovo 3000, which is serviced by IBM.
October 21st, 2008 2:07 pm
I’ve been hankering for DisplayPort since it started showing up (and I deeply wish Lenovo had moved faster integrating it so it was on my T61).
Now all we need is for all display manufacturers to get on board instead of the 3 or so that currently make DisplayPort monitors available (even Lenovo monitors don’t come with DisplayPort).
Paul.
October 21st, 2008 3:15 pm
A well done explanation from Matt about the different available video interface and highlighting of the DisplayPort advantages!
However, I wonder that Lenovo hasn’t chosen for certain *new/actual* ThinkPad models (…namely R400, T400, X200…) to offer directly a DisplayPort interface instead of the “outdated VGA port technology”.
It’s somehow odd/inconsequently that the new 15″ R- and T-series models do come along with DisplayPort and their slightly smaller 14″ cousins do not, even a DisplayPort would have saved same space on the smaler models and even there are cheap DisplayPort-to-VGA adapters available on the market.
Another point which comes to my mind is, that not all customers may be willing to have to buy extra/additionally a dock, media slice etc. just in order to be able to get some usable DisplayPort interface at all. – This looks always like a vendors marketing strategy to sell additional options, aka “…if you want a DisplayPort you have to spend some extra money for our accessories…” etc.
October 21st, 2008 4:29 pm
I have to agree with vkyr. The one major omission on my x200 is a digital out ON THE NOTEBOOK. I would have preferred this to be HDMI for the easy connection to existing monitors, televisions, projectors with a cable you can buy in bulk for less than 10 dollars. I am not particularly fond of having to carry around dongles, much less an ultrabase just to get decent connectivity. I understand that DisplayPort is cheaper for you, and technically a better standard, but it is a more expensive (at least at present) solution for your customers.
That being said, I would have happily traded one of my three USB ports for a DisplayPort. Although I think VGA should be kept at least for the time being because dongles are a pain to deal with (it is difficult to hook a Macbook/MB Pro up to a data projector for example because none of them have VGA).
October 21st, 2008 5:14 pm
vkyr – i agree, especially since “the fruit company” now has a full lineup of notebooks (including their thinnest/lightest model) with discreet graphics and displayport output capable of driving 30″ WQXGA displays.
October 21st, 2008 7:08 pm
Oh…My…God…
That second paragraph… is describing something that happens to me all the time!!
So, what did you say about the tablet pc? still don’t want me to review it for nine months or a year?
October 21st, 2008 9:11 pm
Mea culpa on the W700. How could I have forgotten to mention that my new favorite notebook doesn’t have a DisplayPort?!?
It is an absolute MUST that we continue to provide the VGA port on every system. Why? Because there are a LOT of projectors out there and legacy infrastructure that have VGA input only. Many conference rooms and classrooms are wired with a VGA cable. It’s the lowest common denominator and will be for many years to come. People don’t want to carry dongles, and as I kind of not so clearly stated above, converting DisplayPort to VGA requires a converter, which is more complicated than a dongle. Not to mention that it’s something else to carry in your bag.
We had a decision to make on the T400/R400/X200 series. We could probably have included a DisplayPort, but then we would have had to drop another port — probably a USB port. And woe to us, if we have less than three. It’s bad enough for bid situations that we don’t have four.
Some will rightfully ask why if competitor X can do it, why can’t Lenovo? The reason is that we have put more cooling vents and devoted more physical space on the notebook for cooling. It means we have less space for ports. You’re welcome to debate whether it was the right or wrong decision, but it’s our differentiation decision for this go round’ at least. (One of these days I’ll get around to writing my ThinkPad Design 101 post and will get into all sorts of tradeoffs like this in more depth).
October 21st, 2008 11:30 pm
I am glad you mention the cooling and 3 usb port trade off, it helps explain why it was not included in the laptop that I have my eye on at the moment, the X200s.
As for a VGA port being necessary, I disagree; the OPTIMAL solution would be for Lenovo to engineer an affordable and portable DisplayPort -> VGA adapter that could be used by people who actually require VGA. It seems like a crime to “contaminate” your beautifully engineered devices with such an outdated and unsightly port, especially when there is a wonderful alternative like DisplayPort available.
October 22nd, 2008 12:49 am
Matt, I fully agree that VGA must be maintained at least for the foreseeable future because there is A LOT of legacy equipment out there (even many new projectors are VGA only). I also understand that port tradeoffs must be made when dealing with smaller notebooks (T400, R400, X200), but I fail to see why having only two USB ports is really that much of a problem. USB is a low bandwidth daisy chainable spec. Further, hubs are readily (and cheaply) available, and can easily replicate more plugs. When on the road I don’t see people needing more than 2 USB devices simultaneously (1 mouse, 1 other), and I rarely use any (the card reader is more convenient than USB drives, and the keyboard/trackpoint combo is fantastic). On the few occasions that you actually might use 3+ USB devices, you are almost always sitting at a desk. The easiest thing to do is just buy a cheap hub, plug your 3/4/6 USB devices into the hub, and use a single USB port on the laptop. In fact a single USB and mini-display port are the only things the Macbook Air has, although I think it takes the port reduction a bit too far by dropping card slots, Ethernet, and VGA.
Coversely, DVI/HDMI/DisplayPort are very high bandwidth and need to be integrated on the laptop or in a very high bandwidth add on like an ultrabase (ExpressCard is too slow to work, I checked), and you may find yourself in a situation that you want to connect a monitor, television, or modern projector to your laptop at any time, frequently away from your home base, and newer devices (especially Plasma displays) may not even have VGA. Because there is no reasonable way to add a digital video out with a small expansion card (you can easily add more USB, Firewire, eSata, or other ports via Expresscard/PCMCIA), I think it is essential that you provide this option ON THE NOTEBOOK, even if it means sacrificing other (often redundant) ports.
October 22nd, 2008 6:17 am
Under limited space for port, I can see other manufacturers have some innovative ideas to pack as many port as they can into their laptops. For example Apple have the mini-display port, Toshiba have a eSATA USB combo port. Display port and eSATA are very useful and I really hope that those smart Lenovo engineers will have some innovative way to make these ports into the next generation Lenovo Xseries notebook.
October 22nd, 2008 9:34 am
I have to say that support for multiple-monitors off a laptop is something that I would love! I’m actually here this morning looking at the flicker on my VGA connected, totally underused, digital display connected to my R61, wondering if I can buy a laptop that accepts 2 external digital displays.
Apparently not.
For the consumer, all this HDMI, VGA, DisplayPort is confusing. We need strong direction from manufacturers of displays and laptops to see the way forward.
I believe it is DisplayPort, but as with all new technologies, the consumer can get stung. For instance, the new Macbooks have a mini-DisplayPort, and you need some special $99 adaptor to connect it to existing 30″ displays! I can see non-standard interfaces appearing here.
Please work together to finalize the spec before pushing it out. Have monitors already in the market place that support DP before releasing laptops.
And please enable multi-monitor before releasing another laptop with DP on it… that would be something I’d buy now.
October 22nd, 2008 10:20 am
Since the X200s uses a lower voltage CPU than the X200 (17W TDW vs. 25W TDW) could the cooling vent on the X200s be made smaller than the X200 enough to fit in the DisplayPort connector?
October 22nd, 2008 2:58 pm
Matt wrote: ” …People don’t want to carry dongles, and as I kind of not so clearly stated above, converting DisplayPort to VGA requires a converter, which is more complicated than a dongle…”
Even I understand those above arguments, let me give you some different view points:
Personally I would prefer carrying around a much smaller dongle/adapter or converter instead of a dock, media slice etc. in favor to be able to connect to some devices with digital input ports like bigger TFT-Monitors, modern projectors with DVI/HDMI ports and so on. Further, a converter should also be much cheaper than buying a dock or media slice etc. And if I would need to connect to an old VGA port I would use a converter.
Some people mentioned Apples Mini DisplayPort above, just as an example here, their “Mini DisplayPort to-VGA-Adapter” costs $29. – Another point is that the signal quality of plain old VGA ports is pretty bad, especially on notebooks ports here, the result of this is often a bad and unstable display quality on external higher resolution monitors etc.
Just as a sort of analogy, there are still a bunch of keyboards and mices with PS/2 ports around, but does that mean that actual Thinkpads already come along with PS/2 ports in order to support these directly? Nope, they give you instead more modern and better USB ports and if you have to connect a PS/2 device you will have to use an adapter/converter (that’s what I do with my IBM Space Saver II keyboards).
Finally and what makes me worry is, say you would buy now and yet a new Thinkpad T400/R400, but it should have to amortize it’s purchase price let’s say for 2 years or the like. Still yet and in the near future (some months later) DisplayPort and eSATA ports will be common usage (an industrial standard) on the notebook market, but then your just some months ago bought Thinkpad doesn’t have a direct DisplayPort nor a combined USB/eSATA. – Other vendors are faster and more consistent modern oriented here, they offer now and yet 14″ notebooks which support both or let’s say all ports the actual Intel chipset supports.
October 22nd, 2008 3:32 pm
besides, why is it the responsibility of the business user to have to carry a displayport-to-VGA converter? why can’t the owners of the actual projectors be accountable for providing modern adapters or updating their equipment to current standards?
to me, this is a two-way street.
October 22nd, 2008 5:19 pm
Matt wrote: “…We had a decision to make on the T400/R400/X200 series. We could probably have included a DisplayPort, but then we would have had to drop another port — probably a USB port. And woe to us, if we have less than three. It’s bad enough for bid situations that we don’t have four….”.
I assume here you mean a DisplayPort additionally to the VGA port, since otherwise why should you have to drop another port, where the DisplayPort is even more space saving and compact in size than a VGA port.
To comment on that, you could have just drop the old VGA port in favor of just one DisplayPort (DP) and bundle a DP-to-VGA converter instead. This way you would have still supported both worlds (modern DP and old VGA) without to drop any valuable USB port. – Even some combined USB/eSATA port wouldn’t had been bad to have too…
October 22nd, 2008 7:37 pm
Really, the VGA rationalization is wearing very thin. Frankly, there are a lot more LCD displays with digital inputs (albeit DVI) than
there are projectors with VGA. Further, I have no doubt, your customer base spends more time hooked up to a monitor at home/work than they do to a projector at the Presentation Theater/Classroom. Why must we be put to the pain of hooking up our screens via VGA? I’d prefer to have a Display Port and an adapter. It could be made to be recessed like the ports on the X41 Tablet so that when you install the VGA adapter it will be flush with the case. The two “brilliant” decisions of providing VGA-only and a wide screen to boot on a Tablet ( too narrow for Portrait mode) are what kept me from upgrading to the X200 Tablet.
October 23rd, 2008 6:49 pm
Matt,
I want to have the most silent ThinkPad available.
My favorite model is the X301 but I’m willing to buy a T400 if it is quieter.
Could you please recommend a model and a configuration?
(I now own a T42 which has always been very loud…)
Thanks
October 24th, 2008 9:01 am
Joan,
Pick the T400. Compared to your T42, it’s got a 4 speed fan (compared to 3 on your T42), has a 3rd generation Silent Owl blade (your T42 didn’t even have 1st gen), and if that still isn’t enough, ThinkPad Power Manager gives you options on how to make it even quieter still by modifying some system settings.
October 24th, 2008 9:01 am
But you know what, the X301 is darn quiet too.
October 24th, 2008 4:59 pm
Thank very much!
October 25th, 2008 2:06 am
While everyone seems to be bashing the legacy VGA port, let me be the one to defend it.
The ports that are most needed on a laptop are not the ones you use at your own desk, but rather those you need on the road. It is much more convenient to remedy a lack of the former with a docking station than of the latter with converters and dongles.
At least in my environment (which is academic), this makes the VGA port an absolute necessity. I fully expect classroom VGA projectors to outlast my next laptop.
I’ve seen colleagues with Macs fiddle with their annoying DVI-to-VGA dongles, and even borrow someone else’s PC because they had forgotten the adapter. The last thing we need is for ThinkPads to follow Macs into sacrificing functionality on the altar of cool.
October 25th, 2008 3:13 am
In my eyes, it’s not ‘the altar of cool’, it’s ‘the altar of sanity’. There’s no way for me to get DVI output from my X60 (even with docking station).
This means I can’t fully trust the colours I see on my new Eizo S2031 monitor, but I can’t also get as clear an image as I see on the laptop’s (otherwise inferior) LCD.
Barring some disaster, my decision to wait with upgrading for a sane DVI/DisplayPort + SSD model from the X series (I’d wish for a photo-work-acceptable LCD to boot, but I lost most of the hope) definitely stands.
(Apologies if I sound grumpy; I definitely still believe ThinkPads are the cream of the crop, but it pains me how much time it takes for them to adopt the most essential improvements in recent – and not-so-recent – laptop development. And I’d love to get a new one, there’s just no sensible reason for me to replace my almost-two-year-old X60.)
October 27th, 2008 9:41 am
I definitely agree with Giacomo that the VGA port is necessary on a laptop. There are A LOT of VGA only projectors both in business and academia, and dongles are not nice to use. However, I do not see why 3 USB ports is required. I only had 2 on my T40 and never needed any more (in fact they were stacked and I could often only use 1). Further, if you need more USB ports a simple hub is a cheap and easy way to add them.
I would have preferred if the third USB were dropped for a DisplayPort or HDMI connector on the x200/x200s/x200t/T400, it is about the only piece I feel that the laptop is missing (I still bought one), and a 2 pound ultrabase is even worse to lug around than a dongle. Do any of you actually need 3 USB ports when you are on the road, or would you rather have only 2 and a digital video out?
October 27th, 2008 1:21 pm
I’d rather have 3 USB ports, a DisplayPort (or DVI) and no VGA – a dongle at the end of the projector cable doesn’t make any difference to me, while a third USB port is sometimes (albeit seldom) useful.
But if the VGA port can’t be dropped for some reason, then I’d rather have DisplayPort (or DVI) instead of one (or even two…) of the USB ports.
October 27th, 2008 4:17 pm
Well, having a bunch of USB ports is essential and needed nowadays. Nearly all external attachable devices (mice, keyboards, printers, CF card readers, USB sticks, HDDs, ODDs etc.) do need at least an USB port.
For connecting and booting from external HDDs I wished we would had some notebook eSATA port too, since it would be the most logical thing with an ICH9M southbridge for performing fast image backups/restores and other data exchanges. – I wonder that the competitors can handle all this right now in 14″/15″ business notebooks but Lenovo can’t.
However, another sad point for premium Thinkpads T-series models is for example, that they have too dim TFT panels, a T400 WXGA+ offers a max luminance of 166 nits (cd/m²) and when on battery as default just 110 nits. A T500 with a 1680×1050 panel is even worser, with a max luminance of just 148 nits (cd/m²). When on battery the T500 offers just 80% of this luminance. – In short, I’am not much impressed by Lenovo latest T-series developments.
Ok enough criticized, let’s hope Lenovo will listen and learn their lessons, so they can be more innovative in all directions with their next T-series updates.
October 28th, 2008 8:25 am
vkyr, are you certain about the T400 WXGA+ having only 166 nits? The X200s LED backlit is 250 nits and the CCFL X200 is 200 nits (compared with X61 150 nits and X61s Ultralight LCD 180 nits).
October 28th, 2008 2:40 pm
David, those are independently remeasured values from a popular german computer magazine and thus not the marketing specs of Lenovo, which you just named. Reality is often a completely different pair of shoes, than what product brochures etc. are marketing wise going to make you believe. – Sad but true!
All in all it’s similar like when notebook vendors tell you what battery runtimes you can expect from their products and batteries, which are also mostly far away from reality. Thus always keep in mind “paper doesn’t blush”.
October 29th, 2008 6:14 am
Giacomo has an excellent point.
October 31st, 2008 5:03 am
Erik, to come back on the “fruit company”:
The _advertise_ to have a DisplayPort on all their new notebooks – but they don’t.
In fact _none_ has a DisplayPort.
What Apple wants the customers to believe is, that the Mini-DisplayPort they offer is a DisplayPort, what simply is not true.
Mini-DisplayPort is no standard like DisplayPort. It’s not VESA-compliant and developed by VESA like DisplayPort. No other vender has it, and probably _never_ will. Maybe Sony will introduce a Mini-DisplayPort, but if so, it will _not_ be compatible with the Apple implementation (they proved it back then with Mini-DVI, what was the same game), because it’s ugly and proprietary.
So, what is Mini-DisplayPort good for? To rip of the customers money.
Because it’s proprietary there probably won’t be any adapters from 3rd party, so you stay with expensive Apple stuff. Also never any real DisplayPort device will be supported, nor will their adapters. So, if you buy a Apple monitor and attach any computer but a new Mac (be it a ThinkPad, an old Mac…): you have to get the Apple adapter for > $50. If you want to attach your new Mac PC to any other monitor (your old CRT, your last LCD with DVI, your TV with HDMI, your brand new Dell with DisplayPort), you have to get an adapter from Apple for > $50. For every one of them.
October 31st, 2008 9:59 am
thomasg – you are correct. my point was only to say that it was available, not that it wasn’t a blatant ripoff in terms of compatibility, proprietary hardware, or other headaches locking one into the “fruit” way of planned obsolescence.
November 1st, 2008 6:38 am
Related to T500 models which do come along with the DisplayPort video interface, AFAI heard, you have to switch over from the embedded Intel chipset GPU to the dedicated 3D GPU in order to make any use out of it. Meaning you can’t use the DisplayPort together with Intels chipset GPU on the T500.
I also wonder if it is actually really possible to transmit the sound signals with the DisplayPort, since most people were out of lack here.
Another interesting point is, that on one review web site a T400/T500 reviewer wrote that the T-series might come along with transflective TFT displays, which are usable outsides without much help of the backlights. Well, I’am not sure if the TFT panels for the T-series models do offer some inside foil in order to reuse and reflect the outside light, since I believe Lenovo would have named or advertised such a functionality then. – But I bet Matt is able to tell and clarify this point, so we know for sure, if this is a wrong assumption or plain reality (?).
November 1st, 2008 8:17 pm
I don’t see the DisplayPort as being all that important. Why would an external display be an ABSOLUTE necessity for a notebook? The point of a notebook is that you don’t need to be tethered to a desk. The fact is that most Notebook buyers do not NEED to drive a 30″ inch WQXGA monitor. They do, however, need to work with what’s out there.
DisplayPort may be a necessity for the next successful DESKTOP video card, but I need something that will work with what’s out there in the odd occasion I need to drive an external display which is, for better or for worse, VGA in 99.99% of them.
Like Ethanol, DisplayPort won’t have reasonable infrastructure support in the short term. Sacrificing VGA or a USB for DisplayPort, on a notebook, would be foolish to say the least. Most businesses buy new systems every three to four or five years, so if DisplayPort becomes a necessity, it could be added when the infrastructure is there.
November 2nd, 2008 9:44 am
Kyle, have you ever tried (a) connecting to a VGA display/projector through a DVI-to-VGA dongle and (b) connecting to, say, a 1680×1050 LCD monitor through VGA?
(a) is trivial, non-problematic and works perfectly every time. There’s exactly zero disadvantage to having a DVI (or DisplayPort) output on the laptop and using a digital-to-VGA converter to connect to an analogue device.
(b) yields much lower quality than if you had a DVI output on the laptop, because the signal is converted twice (from digital to analogue and then back to digital) and the monitor has to guess most parameters based on a very low (50 Hz) frequency; the pixels look fuzzy, the colours are not reproduced properly and any checkered patterns cause dizzying pulsations (which also pulsate more with hard disk activity…). I’m an X60 owner and I can’t use my external 1680×1050 display in its full resolution; I have to use 1280×1024, because it’s the last resolution that has a bearable (although *far* from ideal, or from I’d have if I had a DVI output) quality, mainly because X60 can use 75 Hz at this resolution. Still, the pixels are a bit fuzzy and the overall sharpness is much lower than on the (otherwise, much worse) internal laptop LCD.
November 2nd, 2008 6:39 pm
Think about it, a vendor has to decide what to include in a product to satisfy the maximum number of potential and existing customers. ThinkPads, by and large, are purchased by and for Corporate use either for employees to use while traveling or to take their work with them as needs arise. The vast majority of ThinkPad users are not going to be connecting their notebooks to external displays for extended periods (even fewer will permanently do so.)
A Notebook has an internal LCD because that’s the intended primary output, external displays are peripherals and deserve consideration as such. They are, for lack of a better term, third class citizens at best. If an external display is a primary need, a desktop system should be given consideration.
Most users aren’t going to be happy with being forced to carry another add on. What happens if I’m going to Toledo to give a presentation and I forgot the VGA converter back at the office when performing finishing touches and final tests? Those are the lines Lenovo’s product engineers HAVE to figure on.
November 3rd, 2008 9:01 am
In my case, an external display is a primary need: I use my X60 attached to it around 30% of the time (for all my photo-editing needs, but also to get higher resolution for my daily programming, whenever I’m home and don’t feel like laying down on my bed/couch). I considered getting a desktop, but it turns out I hook my X60 to the display two or three times a day, and switching keyboards this often + keeping two systems synchronised would be a nightmare. It’s just much more convenient to be able to use the same machine whether I’m in the office, at my uni, in a café or back home.
I don’t see the business case of comforting forgetful corporate users; even if they’re indeed the largest slice of Lenovo’s target, I doubt their corporations would switch to another laptop brand just because ThinkPads stopped carrying VGA ports. On the other hand, if my X60 broke today, I would think hard what to get next; I can’t imagine working without the ThinkPad keyboard and I’d be missing the TrackPoint even more, but getting a VGA-only laptop in 2008 and not being able to sanely drive my home LCD seems really backwards to me. (MacBooks lack the TrackPoint, tend to break more and more and their support for running Linux, my OS of choice, is really lacking.)
November 3rd, 2008 9:28 am
shot – you might consider getting an ultranav keyboard to use when docked or with a desktop. i’ve had mine for a few years now and currently use it with a thinkstation D10. the only downside is that it lacks a windows key since it’s based on the thinkpad T4x generation keyboard design.
November 3rd, 2008 11:07 am
Thanks, erik! I really like this keyboard from what I see. Unfortunately, if I used it with a desktop, it still means I’d have to spend money on the desktop machine and then sync my two computers every time I want to switch (which, as I wrote, I like doing a couple of times a day); if I went for a non-ThinkPad laptop (so I have one machine, but with a digital output), I’d need to lug it around with me, which isn’t really feasible – I carry my laptop almost everywhere, that’s why I got X60 in the first place.
But if I ever get a desktop, I’ll surely get the UltraNav Keyboard.
November 3rd, 2008 3:16 pm
But they’re offering it to you now in a media slice. When you’re on the road, you can leave it at home. They’re currently giving you the reverse option that you want the majority of users to live under.
Nothing can be done about your X60, but DisplayPort is available in the newer models. You’d have to buy a new model either way.
November 3rd, 2008 4:03 pm
Kyle – Where I work, *all employees* have a business notebook (…mostly placed inside a docking station) to which beside an external bluetooth keyboard/mouse combo, are also always one or two bigger external 22″-24″ TFT-monitors permanently connected. That’s our standard working environment and a typical scenario! The external monitors are needed for our daily development work and nobody, if developer or cad/cam worker, can live without them. The notebooks themselves are only taken solo away, when we have to be mobile on the road, at several different customer sites for installments, demoing, meetings and the like.
So where is the common problem? Well, the problem is that most notebooks with just that shabby, pulpy VGA signal port aren’t adequate enough to produce clean digital signals for higher resolution monitors, which in turn are needed in certain business domains.
Some points to think about related to this are:
- Ever tried to work in the CAD/CAM field just with a notebook without a high resolution external monitor?
- Ever tried to to do serious color based graphics, image editing and pre-press work on a notebook without connecting to a bigger external high end S-IPS/VA TFT-monitor?
- Ever tried to develop huge J2EE applications (with a bunch of concurrent used and to be viewed tools like appserver, db, ide etc.) without having connected one or two huge external displays with enough view space on your notebook?
Times do and have changed a lot since the past, notebooks are nowadays are also used by the industry and business as stationary and mobile desktop replacement computers and thus they have to be capable to drive actual digital port equipped monitors. – It’s not only the consumer multimedia notebook domain which changes fast.
November 20th, 2008 8:18 am
Looking to buy a thinkpad at the moment, but then I noticed the wikipedia article on DisplayPort has the following line “DisplayPort includes optional DPCP (DisplayPort Content Protection) copy-protection” – does Lenovo incorporate/mandate this optional protection? More specifically, given the recent press another computer company has had with this issue (http://arstechnica.com/journal.....k-near-you), will we see the same problem from Lenovo laptops when trying to view legally purchased Hi Def Video content on external devices?
November 22nd, 2008 4:37 pm
A question that is either ignored or danced around all over the web that I would love an answer to is whether of not the DisplayPort used on the newer Lenovo’s in fact DOES or DOES NOT support digital audio pass-through as is eluded to but not plainly stated in this blog post. Many have asked this question on many different Lenovo forums and I have yet to see a straight answer.
Why is this important? Because many Thinkpads’, like my W700 have no digital output unless connected to a minidock. If for example I was on a business trip and wanted or needed to connect my W700 to a plasma TV to view a BluRay movie, one would assume on a +$5000 notebook designed for media content creators that one could hear the digital multichannel (7.1) sound track and not have to rely on the W700’s teeny little stereo speakers or mess around with other cables just to get low-quality two channel output from the headphone jack. Or worse, have to pack the minidock and take it along just to get digital audio out of such an expensive device.
I am surprised at the silence on this issue.
Does Lenovo fully support the DisplayPort spec or have they deliberately crippled it to please the good folks at the RIAA who push their idiotic DRM policies down the throats of consumers.
So Lenovo, how about a simple straight answer:
Does my W700 output multichannel digital audio over my DisplayPort as per the spec or was it disabled to prevent me from playing BluRay movies as-well-as hearing them at the same time in their full quality?
November 22nd, 2008 8:41 pm
Matt,
I’ve just purchased an X301 and I have one more question:
90% of the time I work with external keyboard, mouse and 24 inch monitor (I have the same exact setting at the three locations where I work)
Is it ok to work with the lid of the computer closed?
Or is it better to leave the lid open?
(The problem with leaving it open is that it gathers a lot of dust; by the way, I’ve got 3M cloths that work great removing the dust of my T42).
Thanks again.
November 22nd, 2008 10:21 pm
I would agree with those who have said 2 USB ports on a laptop is enough — get a hub–but there are LOTS of companies who pretend that they really need 4 USB ports, but are only doing that to purposely exclude us from bid situations.
A DisplayPort to VGA port needs some additional electronics which makes it an expensive thing to just give away for “free” in the box. And don’t say, “just charge $20 more for it.” It’s not that easy.
Joan — It’s no problem whatsoever to work with the lid of the computer closed. The only thing you have to make sure to do is change the Windows setting (or the setting in ThinkPad Power Manager) to “do nothing when the lid is closed.” Otherwise your system will go to sleep on you!
November 25th, 2008 6:18 am
Hi Matt,
I also I would be very much interested in the answer to the audio question, if the display port supports it or not.
Thanks
Michael
November 26th, 2008 2:00 am
Hi Matt,
You answered the lid open or closed question promptly which was very considerate.
So what’s the real deal with DisplayPort and audio pass-through?
Oddly, that question seems to go unaddressed by Lenovo wherever I look. Lot’s of people would like to know, especially me.
November 26th, 2008 4:12 pm
Ditto on the DisplayPort audio passthrough response request. I’m getting a W500 soon and would like to know the answer. Thanks.
November 26th, 2008 4:14 pm
Like the Talking Heads song– stilllllll waiting…
DisplayPort and digital audio output– what’s the deal? Why all the duck and cover and not a plain answer?
Here’s a theory:
Lenovo caved into the demands of the recording industry hacks and morons that think DRM ought to be on everything you ever bought including that sandwich you just ate for lunch– and so Lenovo complied by crippling digital audio output on all of their DisplayPorts and even crippled their sound cards so that people can’t record digital audio in their notebooks either.
Nice eh? How’s that for consumer friendly?
Is my theory correct or just tin-foil hat stuff? Would be so very easy for Lenovo to just answer the question and settle it– or maybe that would really kick-up a huge sh!t-storm of consumer disgust at such petty practices.
Remember that most media corporations in their wettest dreams envision a world where you would have to repurchase every movie and song you ever bought over and over again for each new playback device you ever buy in the future, and also believe that you should never have the right to record your movies or songs for your own personal use even though that was settled by the Supreme Court back in 1980 something.
November 29th, 2008 5:50 pm
I’m just reading Sony VAIO TT11XN review. They have squeezed VGA, HDMI, ExpressCard, 2 x USB, audio IN/OUT, FireWire and DVD burner into 11″ 1.3 kg notebook. I really like to see VGA + DVI (or HDMI) ports in X201s.
December 3rd, 2008 5:30 pm
It is sad that there is no response on some of the questions over digital outputs. We get to choose the laptops at work, I will be opting for the one with VGA output – at least that should allow me to see movies and content when I travel.
December 14th, 2008 7:59 pm
I vote tin-foil hat : the SL Series offers HDMI digital audio .. Display port will follow soon enough just not yet.
December 16th, 2008 11:02 pm
Matt, great post, thank you for the thorough explanation. I have never used a Thinkpad before but am interested in the T400 but the lack of a DisplayPort is a tough one to swallow, especially when your competitor’s E6400 has one. I am hoping to hear of an update to the T400 with DisplayPort. The other issue I just learned about Thinkpads is that the Ctrl & Fn key positions are swapped. I hope that too will be addressed. Thank you.
December 17th, 2008 3:47 am
chong – Fn and Ctrl have been that way since the thinkpad first received a Fn key circa 1993. for the millions of thinkpad owners already used to the two keys’ placement, swapping them would be a nightmare.
December 17th, 2008 11:09 am
erik – thanks for the background info. However, I heard that the Thinkpad folks do tinker with the design of the keyboard layout because they were slow but eventually added the Windows key. Therefore I am hoping that they will keep tweaking their keyboard layout.
December 17th, 2008 12:23 pm
Chong, there are still quite a few of us who are displeased with that addition.
December 17th, 2008 12:31 pm
Chong – I hope they’re not foolish enough to make that “tweak”.
December 17th, 2008 12:57 pm
I’m allowed to cross post on my own blog. I’ve also responded to a string of related questions on our forums. I see that many of the same names, so those who still have questions are invited to check out the string of posts here.
http://forums.lenovo.com/lnv/b.....ad.id=1309
March 4th, 2009 7:11 pm
I have Lenovo ThinkPad W500 with Displayport.
- Windows Vista Ultimate
- 4Gig DDR3 SDRAM
- ATI Mobility Radeon FireGL V5700
- Graphics Chipset AMD M86GL
- Intel Core 2 Duo T9400
I just wonder if it is possible to connect to plasma or LCD monitor with only HDMI socket, using Displayport to HDMI cable
(which are available on internet), and in that case is there any special setups or extra procedure required.
Just purchase Displayport to HDMI cable over internet and when I connect Lenovo ThinkPad W500 to plasma or LCD monitor
(with only HDMI socket – no DVI), all I get is black screen with no signal. I have noticed that there is no sing of any detection of extra
monitor in ATI Catalys Control Center.
Any suggestions or advice ?…please
Thank you.
March 8th, 2009 1:49 pm
Hi there,
nice article matt.I consider buying a Lenovo R500 these days.It has a DisplayPort.I’m wondering what the answer to the audio question is – does it support audio transmission over this port as specified in the specs?
March 31st, 2009 9:10 am
http://forums.lenovo.com/lnv/b.....988#U75988
http://forums.lenovo.com/lnv/b.....1850#M1850
Matt Kohut, your claims in the posts above are not true, maybe you should do some research before you 1) blame other companies (Intel) 2) comment on products by other companies (HP, Dell) next time. Talking about business ethics here.
All Dell Latitudes(E6400/E6500)/Precisions(M4300/M4400) notebooks that use Montevina chipsets and have DisplayPorts do carry both video and audio with the DisplayPort to HDMI dongle, which has been confirmed many times on forums. I myself typing this on a work-issued Precision M4400 and I can confirm that it works with my LCD HDTV and monitor and it does carry audio through the same cable.
HP does not have even a single notebook with a DisplayPort, so it’s ridiculous to even mention them.
Will we ever get a PROPER answer as to why DisplayPorts on Lenovo notebooks do not support audio?
http://forums.lenovo.com/lnv/b.....2964#M2964
April 27th, 2009 4:15 am
Why not to make a BIOS function to swap Fn and Ctrl keys? It is the only issue in ThinkPads for me.
June 23rd, 2009 2:22 am
[...] is cheaper & easier to implement than HDMI. For a more in-depth explanation, I highly recommend Matt Kohut’s post on the subject. But in the end, with a ThinkPad (other than the SL models) I cannot have a single [...]
October 13th, 2009 2:16 pm
[...] is cheaper & easier to implement than HDMI. For a more in-depth explanation, I highly recommend Matt Kohut’s post on the subject. But in the end, with a ThinkPad (other than the SL models) I cannot have a single [...]
December 7th, 2009 2:34 am
Im happy that the ThinkPad SL series includes HDMI ports and not DisplayPorts. I bought quite a few HDMI cables a number of years ago. I bought a few extra ones incase the ones that i was using would break, however 2 years later they are still working perfectly, so i havent had the chance to use the extra cables yet. At least now ill be able to with the ThinkPad SL series. They truly are excelent cables – HDMI
February 7th, 2010 7:33 am
[...] iPaQ H39xx with USB (for keyboard and mouse) and the new DisplayPort [5] digital display interface (that is used in recent Lenovo laptops [6]) would make a great PDA/desktop. You could dock a PDA the way some people dock laptops now and [...]
March 1st, 2010 10:01 am
“The specification allows for audio transmission over the same cable.”
So does the implementation in lenovo allow output of audio as well?
(see question in response #47 above).
Can we get a yes/no answer here?
July 27th, 2010 4:36 pm
one question , why displayport doesn’t send audio in thinkpads in spite of it can ??
August 16th, 2010 1:26 pm
“Can we get a yes/no answer here?”
@Dave and others: This blog post is the #3 hit for “lenovo displayport audio” and related searches. The #1 hit is the epic 23 page “Displayport to HDMI with audio” thread on the Lenovo W-Series forum.
Here is the answer for you and others:
Audio over DP *is* provided on 2010 and newer (Calpella chipset, Core i) systems.
see: http://lenovoblogs.com/insidethebox/?p=406
On a Calpella system you should be able to use any one of the widely available DP to HDMI dongles to send video w/ audio to an external device. For example playing a Blu-ray DVD on a w701 and then sending that signal with full audio (7.1 or whatever) via DP, then HDMI, should work. There are some variables (as always). Dongle manufacturer, how to set the correct audio device in windows etc.
Audio over DP was *not* implemented by Lenovo on some Montevina chipset, Intel Core Duoe systems such as the W500 and W700. In the above mentioned thread the final answer as to why this was the case was varied: Chipset limitations / hardware vendor problems / engineering issues / or documentation failures. There are some work arounds to get a fully functional HDMI on these systems- using a dock, using a dongle that combines a headphone audio out with DP, etc. But otherwise, Montevina systems do not (and can not) pass audio over DP.
Hope this helps.
August 17th, 2010 1:26 pm
Quote from the original post
“………………….Since PC desktops will be using DisplayPorts as well, it makes it much easier to coexist. International Data Corporation (IDC) is very bullish on DisplayPort adoption over the next few years in the commercial space. You’ll very quickly see it take the PC world by storm.”
All I can say is that even though I was eagerly waiting but I haven’t seen the storm yet. And I was a fool to buy a T410 which comes with a displayport instead of an HDMI port.
August 22nd, 2010 7:48 pm
Matt, what’s the deal with the audio question? If you’re waiting on further info from inside Lenovo, just say so. Otherwise, it looks like you’re deliberately avoiding answering the question.